#OccupyLSX – Jewish Statement of Support for Occupy London
October 31, 2011 Category: News 122 Comments 
“As members of the British Jewish community, we wish to support the ‘Occupy
London’ movement and its current bases at St Paul’s and Finsbury Square. We
welcome the movement’s openness, pluralism and commitment to imagining a more just
world. We see this as fulfilling many of the precepts of Judaism, such as the
imperative: ‘Justice, justice shall you pursue’. Our history calls for us to speak
out than remain silent in the face of injustice, and our religion emphasises that
justice is found in the concrete acts of feeding the hungry, clothing the naked
and giving help to the oppressed. Our spirituality must be grounded in these,
which are not merely acts of occasional charity, but a fundamental daily ethical
imperative.
“Our Jewish heritage includes a long tradition of reshaping society to help the
least fortunate, from the teaching of prophets like Amos and Jeremiah, to Rabbi
Hillel, to modern figures such as Abraham Joshua Heschel and Naomi Klein. It also
includes a long history of secular Jewish activism, in the struggles for fair
treatment for workers, human rights and environmental justice. It is in this
tradition that we add our voices to the movement demanding accountability, honest
and ethical practices from banks and global corporations, and a restructuring of
financial regulation to ensure transparency and strict legality.
“We wish Occupy London success in furthering and deepening the debate in the
country, and hope it will be a catalyst towards a more sustainable, just and equal
society.”
Occupy Judaism London
Rabbi Judith Rosen-Berry
Rabbi Howard Cooper
Rabbi Sheila Shulman
Rabbi Mark Solomon
Rabbi Margaret Jacobi
Rabbi Judith Levitt
Rabbi Elli Tikvah Sarah
Rabbi Richard Jacobi
Rabbi Shulamit Ambalu
I don’t want to stir the pot, but aren’t a lot of the big bankers jewish? Wasn’t it the jews that starting the whole money lending thing? I know i’m generalizing and that i’ll be called racist, even though judaism is a faith and not a race! Lol… It’s like me saying nazis didn’t much like black people! Is that racist? Towards the nazis? Ridiculous! Anyway i get suspicious when any religions get involved! Religion is part of oppression! It’s part of the tyranny and wars!… I think you could alienate quite a few people going down this religious route, and also by taking down the anti capitalist banners! What are you saying by that? What? Greed is ok now? Did i miss something?
I welcome this statement and would like to see statements from other faiths to add to this and the Christian one.
Religion has certainly been part of oppression, tyrany and wars. It is not perfect, just look at the bozos in St Paul’s who have undertaken a course of action that is likely to lead to violence. However, look as well at all the good which religions do in the world. Many charities were started by religious people and continue with significant input from religious people who are not motivated by recruiting people to their religion but are motivated by doing their best for the disadvantaged.
Before those with limited English comprehension skills leap in, that does not mean those with no religion don’t do this as well. Nothing in the paragraph above says that only religious people start and help charities.
Why would taking down anti-capitalist banners suggest that the Occupy movement is not against the kind of greed that has been responsible for the economic crisis?
it wouldnt is the simple answer. capitalism involves free and FAIR TRADE IN THE ECONOMY, this is NOT what we have now. ANTI-CORPERATE GREED AND ANTI-CORRUPTION IN POLITICS AND BIZNESS is more likely what the banners are on about. ecconomics is kept deliberately confusing, so people often make this mistake, even those involved in said are oblivious to this fact. untill they actualy understand what it is the words mean, it’ll be just excepted as fact that our ecconomy is a capitalist one. this is word play to control through confusion. this crisis, as far as i can tell, is being micro-managed in order to slash what remains of workers rites and drive down wages in the “west” so as to compete with the “tiger” economies in the “east”!!! any thoughts??
Capitalism involves free and fair trade?? Lol… Really?? No, capitalism is about earning as mach money as YOU can! It doesn’t matter what effect that has on people around you, because well obviously they didn’t work as hard as you!
It’s about buying low and selling high! It’s the reason organisations like FAIR TRADE had to step in! Because third world countries were getting RAPED! Tell me, if capitalism is as you say, why is there a fair trade organisation that fights for fair prices?
Capitalism allows people to hoard vast sums of money! While others have nothing! Capitalism is nothing about fairness or freedom! It’s freedom for the minority yeah! But the vast majority ALWAYS loses out! This is why capitalism ALWAYS comes to an end! Because eventually the people have enough!
Totally agree Barry. Religion has been far too close to death & destruction over the centuries for it to be a naive sense of helping fellow man. Religion has also been far too close to the political system to be heathly. Politicians try to gain their approval because they know that religion will help them subjugate the masses. The Pope has just recently called for a One World Currency so we know who song sheet he is singing off.
Finally someone that gets where i’m coming from! Lol… Thank you!… Religion has no place in this movement!
we need good jews….not bad new world order jews,,minerva illumanti………and masonic jews!!!!!!!!!!!COMMENT 666#THAT!
read my comment at bottom of page before they illegal reomve it…….THIS IS LAST TIME IM HELPING THESE GUY’S…the impostion of illegal law on top of you is this,state fiction,a corporation or government not natural law,a natural citizen,so there injuction and laws of capture and control are illegal pure slavery,master over slaves,..for example sur means a slave…part of sur name to capture you illegally,they can sticker any offences on your head its not legal at all! because that is slavery my friends..a capture of someone illegally..the courts can be served warrants for arrest…and will nver see daylight again,they don’t get civilian trial rights like us………..YOU HAVE GOOD legitmate reseasons to do what your doing,and belive in,and your opinions….there is no evidence that you are being violent….towards people…….so the police must leave you alone and not EVICT AT ALL!
THOUGHT IT WAS FROM THE WORD “SURF” AS IN SURFDOM, BUT IT DOES MEAN A PERSON BOUND BY “OWNERSHIP”TO A PEICE OF RENTED LAND TO THE LOCAL “LORD OR NOBLEMAN”. WHO NOT ONLY OWNS YOU, USUALLY THRUOUGH AN UNPAYABLE AMOUNT OF DEBT, BUT WILL OWN YOUR KIDS ,GRANDKIDS TO INFINATUM. AND WHEN THE “NOBLE” DIES, YOUR “DEBT” WOULD PASS TO THEIR HEIRS!! HEY!! WAIT A MINUTE, HAVENT I HEARD ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT GOING ON NOW??? SOMETHING ABOUT MORE GAUGES, THO IM NOT SURE WHAT THEY MEASURE? THEIR LOOT PROBABLY EH??
“the imposition of illegal law” < comes from the Freemen of the Land (FMOTL) movement. The British version is quite obsessed with the Magna Carta (1215AD) and clause 61 of that document, which "gave 25 barons the right to meet and overrule the will of the king and seize his assets, essentially usurping his authority, if this was considered necessary". The clause can only be activated by 25 barons, and nowhere is there any mention of 'freemen' or 'lawful rebellion'. The document of 1215AD was in fact repealed in 1297AD and clause 61 was removed. By 1969, all but sections 1 (freedom of the church), 9 (freedom of the city of London) and 29 (right to due process) of the 1297AD charter had been repealed or replaced by newer laws. Today, the British FMOTL movement are using this 1215AD clause 61 to encourage people to avoid paying their council taxes and claim a right of 'lawful rebellion'.
Barry is right, almost all the top bankers are Jewish and in every single industry from Banking to Media, to Arms Dealing the Jews dominate.
Not racist, just true. Look them all up if you dont believe me.
i think this is an amazingly positive statement of support, thank you all in the jewish comunnity for your open support! and to the point of jewish bankers, all sociaties and creeds have hypicritical parasites within them, and tho a person may come from and state they beleive in a thing it isnt neccerseraly so. look at the very “christian” G.DUBYA.bush. he lied to the entire planet in order to MURDER between 2 and 5 MILLION iraqi citezens, just for what is essentialy dead sea life? (er, thats oil to those confused more than i) and so chainey(?) the dick could steal BILLIONS for HALIBURTONS to rebuild the country.ie. see also afganistan, lybia, granaida and almost any other “freind to america they have a base in. so dont expect that some of those who are born into or profess to follow a religion to actually follow the beleifs of said. EVIL realy does exist and it is truely taking over our world, WE THE 99% ARE NOW, TAKING IT BACK!!! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR MUCH NEEDED SUPPORT!!!
windy miller… You are going down a slippery slope though accepting religious support! I don’t care if the PEOPLE go and protest, that’s great a REAL support! However, just coming out and saying the jewish community supports the movement is not support it’s posturing! And how can anyone talk for the whole jewish community? As you say, they’re not all the same! I would hazard a guess that the big bankers and big business men would not support you! And at the end of the day it is a jewish belief that you can charge interest to anyone but jews! Is that not racist? Unfair? Unkind? Is it really a message you want the movement associated with? Likewise would you want muslims to come offer their jihad services? Or would you like the church to come out and support you by condeming you to hell to burn for eternity?… Religion is part of the PROBLEM! It’s classic divide and conquer!
We are all human beings! That is it! We don’t need religions offering the support of their respective gods!
no Barry it is racist, unfair and unkind! who talking bout 2 whole societies now? that would be barry. jew pay interest. jihad, or “greater jihad” is to strive to be a good muslim not blow people up. and yes “lesser jihad” involves fighting, but only if you invade a muslims country or violently attack islam. the prophet said, if they do this then “you must seek them out wherever you find them and kill them,” extreemist use these words all the time, but they never say the rest of the phrase, which says “but when they cease to fight you, you must show mercy, because “allah” loves mercy above all things. i tried with you barry, i realy did. but if you are going to make idioticly fascist hate filled statments, i suggest you educate yourself on your chosen target. and if you truely beleive what your saying, all you need is therapy or move to a deserted island so you can be with your own kind, cos your obviously not a human being are you?
Right, what exactly did i say that you consider racist? And how can it be racist when we’re talking about religion?…
Who’s talking about 2 societies? Hmmm not quite sure what you mean, please explain…
I’m not saying jews don’t pay interest i’m saying a jew will not charge another jew interest! But will charge interest to not jews! As per their religion says! And that in my opinion is rather selfish! Why not extend the generosity to all humans?
I’ll give you the jihad stuff that is fine, i believe that the quran say’s what you say it does… However! You can not deny that the religion is used to motivate people towards killing people! And that goes for both sides! I am anti all the wars! Still that is not the only problem with muslim religion, it is very oppressive! Hell they even tell you what you can and can’t eat! And even at times whether you can eat at all!
Well after that it kinda really goes downhill! You really tried with me? Lmao! There is nothing wrong with my opinion! My standpoint is not from some uneducated hate speech mate! I don’t hate the people that are just blindly indoctrinated! I feel for them! Many, many, many people put their life on hold or restrict their possibilities because of religion!
This movement has nothing to do with religion and it’s irrelevant that JEWISH people support it! And isn’t it even a blanket statement like you’re accusing me of? Have they asked every jew? And as their religion teaches the stuff i’ve talked about regarding interest i see it as hypocritical to be in support of this movement! As i believed the message of the movement was about equality and fairness for EVERYONE!
If people want to be jewish it’s fine by me! But don’t get involved with matters regarding equality!
If the-Jews-in-Barry’s-medieval world are not supposed to not be charged interest, how come Jews today are charged interest, just like everyone else. Answer that one, Barry.
Barry, you’re entitled to your atheism, and atheists are involved in the Occupy movement, HOWEVER, tolerance for people of faith and tolerance for people without faith is also a cornerstone of the movement too.
I’m sorry you’re reply went down the bottom of the page…
I’d just like to add though i’m tolerant, in the respect that if there was even a jewish banker was there PROTESTING i wouldn’t mind, but i would certainly have a conversation with him.
What i have a problem with is getting religions involved! I didn’t stand up there and say hey, the atheists support your cause! All us atheists are with you! Why? Because the fact i’m atheist is IRRELEVANT! The religions coming out with these statements is just posturing! Nothing more.
We seem to be at the limit of the reply button here, Barry.
You have a problem with people from various faiths making statements, and call it posturing, but when people of no faith at all make statements, you don’t respond the same way.
Everyone, faith or not, is getting involved with Occupy.
The British Government under the Tories has set about destroying all the state and local authority services that were originally intended to protect and serve vulnerable people in our society.
Those services have for many decades been provided by democratically elected SECULAR local and national bodies.
The Coalition Government is dismantling those secular services, and now trying to encourage private organisations – religious or private companies or charitable organisations (what’s left of them) – who aren’t democratically accountable, to take charge and run of these services.
But instead of focusing on what is actually happening, Barry is going off on a conspiracy-track, talking about Jew-banker-moneylending-talmudists as though that had ANYTHING to do with what’s happening.
I’m telling you straight, Barry. You’re completely out of touch with what is going on politically. You haven’t the first idea of the ramifications of the changes being put through by the coalition government.
Best to stop obsessing about Jews and statements of Jewish support, which are preventing you from engaging in meaningful political discourse in the here and now.
Focus on the very real threats now facing the entire country as our once secular and democratically controlled services are dismantled and privatised.
P.S. no, the knights templars invented modern banking practices, including 1st checks and then paper money. going to the “holyland” was filled with adventurous stuff like robbers and kidnappers, so the templars were set up to protect pilgims. but a few years later less er zelous types filled their ranks and so insted of all that fighting and dying, you deposit your gold or silver at the templar local “branch in every town or my names not iccabod is how the ads must have gone” and you get a check to cash in the holy land. where you will be justly fleeced of said loot by the cronie squad, this check or promise note may also be exchanged partly or fully by autherised merchents along the way, who will give a new note for the difference”merchant bankers” and of course a promise to pay the bearer on demand or money replaced peoples names on their check. it ment u give gold they check the amount and u get a note off the m-banker. the jewish thing people mix up are money changers at the temple, so you can use only gods money to PAY the preist for your “required by jewish faith to make. PREISTLY FLEECED.hence jesus kicking their heads in for “turning THE HOUSE OF GOD into a den of theives”!! sorry bout the lecture
come on Barry old son, should we then chose who we want support from? im as anti- religeous doctrin as mao, and i think most are completley hipercritical, know they are in fact. but people can beleive whatever they like cant they? and besides supporting our call for global change is what we want isnt it? and if you grew up in my life you’d know i more than understand your veiw. but still i have and do meet many deeply religious people who are amongst the most wonderful,honest, kindest and open minded people i have ever met. i dont allow my abuse to tarnish those who werent responsible, as for them that were, i just pity them as pathetic realy. what can i say, im just a great guy,lol. think my p.s. may have shown my stance apon “the church” most are nothing to do with the origanal messages anyhoo, eh?
well windymillar, do you not see that i’ve had quite a few replies to my comments? Lol. Can i not be afforded some time to atleast reply to some other people? You’re aware that you’re not the only one right? Though i’ll give it to you that atleast you’re commenting on the content… Give me some time to get back to you as i’ve already spent a good portion of my day on here and i’ve got 2 kids to go entertain. Lol… But i promise, this evening when they’re all tucked up, i’ll get back to you. Okay?
Ok you’re way off here my friend… Templars? Too much assassins creed perhaps?
Paper money has been used WAY before then! They were using it in china in the 600’s! It was probably even before then! Banking was way before paper money… Thanks for the info on the templars though…
I’m not confusing the jesus in the temples thing, or even refering to that… I’ve explained the problem i have with them and money.
I am glad the pot has been stirred. Not every Jew is rich the same as not every British exprime minister is a millionaire. I find this statement by the British Jewish Community both noble and gracious. I went down to St Pauls and found the occupiers warm, friendly, brave, passionate and caring. It is such as shame that the government have no such virtues.
Barry asked: “Wasn’t it the jews that starting the whole money lending thing? ”
No, it wasn’t the Jews that started this whole money lending thing. Stop watching dodgy youtube videos and read some real history on it.
No you’re right, but there was an understanding that tax had to be fair right? And it was a certain amount… The jews didn’t agree! Unless as i say you were another jew, then they couldn’t charge you interest! As per their religion… I’m sorry i can’t remember ever fact, and i would say there would be debate as to who started it! You do realise mainstream stuff is on youtube right? Does that make them dodgey videos too?…
As it happens i learned a bit about the origins of money from a documentary on tv (does that make you happy) called “the origins of money… You should watch it, it was very interesting!
Anyway, thanks for the correction, i welcome that.
@Barry
You are not alone amongst good people when you say “Religion is part of oppression”. However, your suggestion that banking is a faith/race issue is misguided.
I presume you are defensive about being called racist becuase it has happened before. Mentioning race/faith when irrelevant will raise eyebrows. So maybe don’t do it.
Here’s a tip for you: the NWO/Aliens/Jewish conspiracy rumours are false. They are nonsense extrapolated to beyond reason from unbearable truths. Anyway, everyone knows that info wars is run by the CIA.
Personally, I thank our friends for their kind words of support.
Janet
“the NWO/Aliens/Jewish conspiracy rumours are false. They are nonsense extrapolated to beyond reason from unbearable truths.”
yes yes yes.
“Anyway, everyone knows that info wars is run by the CIA.”
and now i really love you.
in a non-stalkery way, of course. :*)
hey im a jewish alien trying to set up a new world order so as to make you puny humans buy at my stores, and i resent theese speicist and quite frankly human sentiments!! dad was right we should have just destroyed the earth and built that nice new and useful hyperspace bypass afterall. spundignitharg earthlings
David… Some people within religions do good, but the religions themselves are NEVER good!… What is the point in saying well, masturbation is evil and you will forever burn in hell! But on the upside we’ll set up some charities fighting world hunger!… It makes no sense… It’s like me pushing some old lady under a bus, then saving another 10 old ladies from a house fire around the corner! Am i hero? Am i virtuous?
Look at the amount of abuse that has come from a number of religions! Muslim women killed for wanting to marry outside the faith! Women forced to cover their face! Christians clergy rife with child abuse! They blessed the planes that dropped the bombs during the world wars! Etc etc… It doesn’t matter what good deeds you do if you also do bad deeds!
Anyway i don’t see what religion has to do with the economic “crisis”! Aren’t most people in power of some religious persuation? Then we get other religious people coming out in support? Lol
What we need to be doing is constantly highlighting the corruption and inherent violence in the system! We need to highlight that tax is theft! Unless it’s voluntary of course… That the use of force against non violent people is always immoral!
Pandering to the media and religions will get us nowhere! They are both part of the problem!
“What is the point in saying well, masturbation is evil and you will forever burn in hell!”
You are treating what some parts of some religions have said, more often in the past than now, and claiming that all religions say the same thing. In short, you are badly informed. I am aware of some people in some parts of some religions who have said, “masturbation is evil and you will forever burn in hell!”, but it isn’t common.
You made some other tedious points which have much the same answer as I gave to your first tedious point.
“What we need to be doing is constantly highlighting the corruption and inherent violence in the system! We need to highlight that tax is theft! Unless it’s voluntary of course… That the use of force against non violent people is always immoral!”
A little research would show you that many religions say all of that.
Now I didn’t agree with the recently resigned Dean, but I am sad that he has placed himself in a position where he feels he has to resign. The resignation is the right thing though, perhaps St Paul’s can now can adopt a more Christian approach, involving welcoming the campers.
thats dogma your on about, nothing to do with faith or belief, thats just more politics of control. your just knocking peoples beleifs. take it as fact that hierarchy in the church practice political dogma to gain power through fear of the pit and we are essentially on about christian dogma here as most religions dont have the same structure. christian dogma is almost nothing to do with jesus and i rek he would wear dark glasses and change his name to steve through pure shameful embaressment if he came back now. beware of priests in silk and satin robes he said. unfortunatly people with true faith beleive these charlatens and so are used to gain power and money. it doesnt mean all are corrupt but alot of the most powerful like it up their and stop being servants of god to man, and start thinking they are somehow devinely sent so man can serve their holyness.i.ei his holyness the pope, is not remotely holy as only a god is holy not a man . they expect bowing and kissing of hands, no, no, no,just men evil to the core or ignorant as feck. ok, its a given!! but dont knock beleif or faith, it is litterally ALL some people have ok! thank you
Wow! I agree with nearly everything you said there! Apart from the last bit! Lol
Generally i do leave people alone to believe what they like… I don’t exactly go out into the street denouncing all religion! But i will tell people my thoughts if needs must! And that’s all i’m trying to do! Do we really need the heads of large religious organisations coming out in support of the movement? No matter what the religion!
The corruption you speak about is present in pretty much every religion! Also i think religion is a pretty dangerous state of mind, the bible tells how man can not direct it’s own steps, and it teaches to put faith in god to provide for you etc… Anyway man, id really like to focus on the issues! And i think thats what the movement should do! I know you probably think i’m pretty negative, but i’m so not lol… I just see religion as part of the problem, why don’t we have faith in OURSELVES! I want people to realise WE are powerful! So my partner has agreed to have and unassissted home birth! I home educate the kids! I tell everyone we meet about what i’m doing and why! I’m doing my best, it just disheartened me to see all the political/religious posturing!
I hope that kind of sheds some light on my viewpoint?
NEVER do good barry? yeah buddist, toaist or zen, what a bunch sheesh. tell you wot bazzer why dont you go join the sientologist as im sure L ron hubbard will share at least 1 of your views. failing that you could just read his sci-fi (which is preety good by the way. we need all support espeicially the media, instead of sucking your thumb everytime someone you disagree with supports what we are trying very hard to do, why dont use that evolved brain of yours to change their minds through reason and debate. as we are attempting to? oh , and by jewish community i think they may mean the community of synagog ( im lexdixic sorree) goers. im going now topic is, passionate, too much now, my point is made.
Yeah you could say those religions do good, but to be part of it you have to sacrifice your LIFE! Not really something that is needed, it’s very oppressive… But hey it’s voluntary so that’s cool by me! I wouldn’t really want them to say they support the movement either to be honest! It just muddies the waters!
What we need to focus on is government, media and big business corruption! Though hey you don’t believe in any conspiracies! When they discuss things in private at bilderburg meetings nothing is going on! They’re just talking about all the lovely things they’re going to do for the people! Lol
Sucking my thumb? Lol because i don’t want the movement to get mixed up with religion? Look at what’s happened by just staying at st pauls! I’m not saying it was the wrong choice, it was probably the ONLY choice but look at how they’ve reacted! Look how the media has tried to make you lot look bad! Repeatedly saying how the poor old cathedral were losing 20,000 a day, boo hoo! Then the church of england invests that money into banks on the stock market! I mean come on! You think the media is going to help you? So far the guardian has been ok, but that’s about it… Oh and actually channel 4 had an excellent speaker on there! I’m sorry i forget his name, but he did up proud! All in all the the media has been extremely biased and unsupportive!
Well if jews do not go to the synagog, then they aren’t jews are they! Just like chatholics that do not practice are not catholics! They are merely wearing a label because their family has it! It’s ridiculous! And anyway if they do mean the synagog community, have they asked the everyone?
Point made? Hmmm… Okay!
@Barry
I think you forget that Jewish people were forced into money-lending a long long long time ago because many cities across Europe didn’t let them do much else as a profession. Not that that’s to do with the current situation so much…but if you will go back to the beginning, then please check facts!
I think it is important not to confuse individual groups of religious people with ANY institution or group of people (or government…) that gets too much power over others – I think it’s a weakness of the whole human race, rather than something inherent in religious individuals.
There should be statements and acts and deeds of support from all and any group that understands the cause.
The 99% contains a lot of people, and we won’t ever agree on everything, or all believe the same things, but I am pretty sure there’s a process of building consensus, discourse and mutual respect over such differences. How incredible that we can find so much common ground in such a diverse society.
And I suggest that it is the common ground that we focus on.
Noone is forced to do anything! Could they just not of lived their? Nazis were ok then because they too were forced to do what they did? It’s this attitude that has gotten us to this point! Watch origins of money, they tell a different story to the one you describe, maybe it’s you that should not take anything as FACT?
I’m with you on the second part which is why i say don’t involve religion! Look, even now we’re discussing religion! Lol
“Banking re-emerged in Europe at about the time of the Crusades. In Italian city states such as Rome, Venice and Genoa, and in the fairs of medieval France, the need to transfer sums of money for trading purposes led to the development of financial services including bills of exchange. Although it is possible that such bills had been used by the Arabs in the eighth century and the Jews in the tenth, the first for which definite evidence exists was a contract issued in Genoa in 1156 to enable two brothers who had borrowed 115 Genoese pounds to reimburse the bank’s agents in Constantinople by paying them 460 bezants one month after their arrival.
The Crusades gave a great stimulus to banking because payments for supplies, equipment, allies, ransoms etc. required safe and speedy means of transferring vast resources of cash. Consequently the Knights of the Temple and the Hospitallers began to provide some banking services such as those already being developed in some of the Italian city states.”
http://projects.exeter.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/origins.html
actually they were forced by bigoted european countries passing laws limiting the jobs that jews were allowed to have. and it wasnt any nazi idea, like ALL nazi ideology they stole it from other races and creeds. so, so much for nazi purity eh. like most they forget we are all of us only 74 thousand years out of africa, mother of us all, and probably descended from as few as 3 or 4 thousand individuals. about 27% from one single female, mitacondrial DNA proves this. and religions too probably originated from one sorce too. as for GOD science through physics seems to be pointing to the entire multi- universe having been designed, tho this obviously makes many scientists feel a wee bit uncomfortable and or sick. i find it entrancing. GREED is the thing that has/is tearing humanity apart not god. the old bullshit paradimes are what needs to go ,that includes the way we see each other across the globe. so let us deal with social issues through politics first, befor we tackle anyones faith shall we???
Well i see it as they were forced into those jobs because of their thoughts about money… I’m not saying i agree with that! I don’t think anyone should be FORCED to do anything!
The last part i totally agree with! That’s my whole fucking point! Lol… That’s what i’m trying to say! Why invite religion to the movement? Why not just people!? I didn’t bring up religion, this article did.
Barry,
There are Jews and gentiles within the banking community, and a Venn diagram showing the intersection of Jews and bankers would probably closely resemble that showing gentiles and bankers. Historically there have been Jews in financial management roles largely because of the restrictions they faced owning land; in an agrarian economy as was until the modern era, that didn’t leave a whole lot of other professions, so they become financiers, jewellers, doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc. While some of those professional traditions remain to some degree, after the founding of Israel many many Jews did return to Israel and return to farming.
It would be a logical fallacy to say because some Jews are in finance, bankers are Jewish. In logic that’s referred to as a propositional fallacy of the type “affirming the consequent.”
James… Because capitalism is greed! Working your way to the top means you push other people down!… It’s survival of the fittest, it’s not compassionate or fair… It’s what’s allowed a few people to become greedy and hoard billions of pounds!
Look at it this way, we’re all supposed to have equal opestunity right? We’re constantly told of success stories where people start at the bottom and work their way up to the top! That’s great right? They deserve it right? Ok well imagine if everyone did that, in fact it’s IMPOSSIBLE! How could everyone rise to the top? There would be no bottom and no one would be there to actually earn the money by making the products! Or providing the service! It’s a fact that within capitalism the majority must lose because there just aren’t as many high paid jobs as there are low paid!
But in reality does a guy on the factory floor work any less than a guy in the office? If the guy on the factory floor wasn’t there, there would be no factory! No guy in the office! Why shouldn’t they both earn equally? Why shouldn’t everyone earn equally? Or better yet do away with money entirely!
We are fed the illusion that we have equal opportunity! But there isn’t even equal opportunity to be had!… Why does a bin man not earn the same as a doctor? Why does someone kicking a ball around get millions? Why does someone singing a song get millions? Why does anyone need millions! Why do they need to live in mansions? The whole thing is a joke! Can you envisage a world that allows people to amass huge wealth but not be about greed?
Thank you to the Jewish community for this statement of support.
That said, I can’t help notice the unfortunate page number in the URL of this post. Cue the Glenn Beck waterworks and conspiracy claims when he gets word!
No i think you have me wrong… I’m not saying banking was caused because of faith/race! I’m saying it’s hypocritical of the jewish community to support the campaign when so many of their people are part of the PROBLEM! And they have been part of the problem for some time… Watch a documentary called the origins of money! It’s not about jewish or any faith, it just goes down the timeline of money creation! Jews featured heavily! In fact in italy they had to live in a separate part to other people because of what they did! Ie lending money! Lending money is just creating debt! I’m not saying their faith caused it….
Yes i’ve been called racist before for talking about jews! For instance while i was at the occupy london camp i was mentioning about a documentary i saw many years ago, i don’t even remember what the subject was, but something stuck in my mind… It was saying that jewish people only bought jewish wine… that was all i said before being called a racist! Lol
In my opinion i could see why that mentality would piss people off! (buying only from your community).
I’m not privy to any jewish conspiracies to be honest, yeah i’ve heard people pointing out all the jewish bankers etc, but never looked into it as it doesn’t interest me!
If you say people from every type of religion or thought process is welcome why remove the anti capitalist banner?
I agree we will never agree on everything, i’m not suggesting we should! But involving religion muddies the waters! What does it have to do with anything?
I’m saying we need to stick to what we can agree on and that’s that the current system is corrupt! Leave religion for inside the church/mosque etc.
Barry, the very fact that you’re lumping all Jewish people together and expecting Jews who have nothing to do with each other to apologise for each others’ misdeeds. That you’re writing in terms of ‘our people’ and ‘their people’ is the problem because you’re creating an imaginary dividing line on the basis of Jewishness.
I’ve seen The Origins of Money and the representation was that the Christians considered matters of money and usury to be too unclean for their own good holy selves to be dealing with so in an act of ungraciousness they made laws that the Jews, also considered unclean, were not only to be handed the task of all matters of money but that they were not to be allowed to do anything else.
Like you, they then went on to vilify the Jews as greedy for doing the only jobs they were allowed to do rather than starving to death.
So far you’ve done nothing but pile hate on Britain’s Jewish community under the cover of being anti-religious overall but this misrepresentation of clearly presented historical fact coupled with the mixing of discussing the Jews as a religious and as a racial group tells the lie that all this supposedly righteous anger is being driven by a vicious racist streak in the mind of a petty thug.
Lol what a load of nonsense! I love the way that you’re not even allowed to criticise the jewish RELIGION!
I’m NOT criticising jewish people! It’s the bloody religion i have a problem with! Well all religion! Especially when they get involved with something that has nothing to do with religion!
Thank you for proving my point about why the jews were segregated, although you didn’t quite spell it out clearly enough! The jews will not lend to their own with interest, but they were happy to get other people in debt! Did i create that divide? Erm no pal!… I am well within my rights to comment on that! Just as i’m within my rights to comment on the muslim religion for making women cover their faces while men don’t have to! It’s hypocritical!
However, now the christian religion is just as bad as chatholics and church of england both invest in the financial institutions and thus are part of the problem!
Now you go on to say that i pile hate on the british jewish! Lol i pile hate on ALL jewish, not just the british ones! If they think it’s ok to get others into debt but not their own, then yeah, i got a problem with that!
Oh and there goes the race card for hating RELIGION! Judaism is not a fucking race! It’s a choice!
You’re just another drone jumping on the band wagon!
Don’t put words in my mouth, shitbag.
Barry, let me say it. You are a complete and dangerous idiot. You keep saying you are criticizing a Religion, but you keep saying things about the jewish People: viz – we only buy ‘jewish wine’ (wtf is that?), we don’t lend to other jews at interest (oh that that were so). When you say something about an entire people it is racist, not about religion. If you want to say that the jefwish religion is daft, that nobody should follow it, etc, that is ok. But you have a strange and dangerous view of the world.
Sorry your reply is down the bottom, i’m on my phone and it’s hard work!
In fact in italy they had to live in a separate part to other people because of what they did
This is totally untrue. Jews were forced to live in ghettos by European monarchs and governments as a result of religious prejudice and to prevent them from mixing with the surrounding population.
from Wikipedia:
Jewish ghettos in Europe existed because Jews were viewed as alien due to being a cultural minority and due to their non-Christian beliefs in a Renaissance Christian environment. As a result, Jews were placed under strict regulations throughout many European cities.[6] The character of ghettos has varied through times. In some cases, the ghetto was a Jewish quarter with a relatively affluent population (for instance the Jewish ghetto in Venice). In other cases, ghettos were places of terrible poverty and during periods of population growth, ghettos (as that of Rome), had narrow streets and tall, crowded houses. Residents had their own justice system.
Around the ghetto stood walls that, during pogroms, were closed from inside to protect the community, but from the outside during Christmas, Pesach, and Easter Week to prevent the Jews from leaving during those times. Starting in the early second millennium Jews became an asset for rulers who regarded them as a reliable and steady source of taxes and fees.
“Jews
became an asset for rulers who
regarded them as a reliable and
steady source of taxes and fees”
Doesn’t that say it all? Why did they become such an asset to the “rulers”? Because what they were doing was WRONG!
Btw nothing of what you wrote disproves what i said! In fact what i said could and does fit into the “cultural minority” category!… Jews believed that you can not lend to another jew with interest but anyone else was fair game! Is there any wonder they were shut out of society?
“Noone is forced to do anything! Could they just not of lived their?”
Lived off their what? Are you saying that they should have starved rather than do the one job that was permitted to them?
No i meant couldn’t they just of moved to somewhere else?
Where to then? All the other places in Europe that where imposing all the sames restrictions on them?
Firstly i didn’t say ALL religions say masturbation is bad! It was an example of the TYPE of oppressive stuff religions promote! I was raised in a catholic background, i went to a catholic school etc, so i tend to focus on that, obviously… The point is ALL religions oppress people to some degree! Whether by force or by spreading guilt!
It doesn’t really matter what religions say! It’s what they do that counts! For instance, in the bible it says jesus went mad at people trading inside the temple, yet today the church sells bibles and book marks etc inside the church! The church of england could well be against greed but it invests in the stock market! Mainly banks no less! A little research would tell you that.
“Firstly i didn’t say ALL religions say masturbation is bad!”
Correct. But you preceded it with a reference to religions. The only possible deduction from that was that you were referring to all religions.
“The church of england could well be against greed but it invests in the stock market! Mainly banks no less! A little research would tell you that.”
I have no need of doing research to tell me that the CofE has large investments. It is something I have known for decades, and In fact it was first drawn to my attention by members of the CofE. It is a matter of concern to many members of the CofE.
The investments are mainly in property I gather and are used to pay wages and pensions, as well as some of the costs of buildings. These investments will also pay for the court stuff which will almost certainly lead to violence on behalf of the CofE, unless the CofE adopts a Christian approach and ditches the court stuff.
I can see why you thought what you did, but it was an example, there was no need to real off all the other inconsistencies within religions…
As far as i understand the church of england is heavily invested in banks! To the tune of millions! Where did they get the money to invest? DONATIONS and entrance fees! What you say doesn’t make a lot of sense in the wider context… The church says it needs 20,000 a day to survive and maintain the buildings, but you’re saying they do that via investments!
I’m sorry but all the religions are immoral and supersticous clap trap!… It is the biggest and best scam next to governments! Please show me proof that god exists? “well we can’t because we need to show faith!” It’s to be admired really, people actually fall for it!
Btw i focus on christianity because that’s how i was bought up, i went to a chatholic school, in one particularly memorable RE “LESSON” we were split into groups and given a huge sheet of paper each, then told to write down every swear word we knew! Obviously we accepted the challenge and wrote EVERYTHING! At the end the “teacher” wondered around inspecting the sheets and found the word WANKER, well that was it! She told us that was the worse word to ever call people! Because masturbation was evil and we should never do or accuse others of doing it!
I feel i wasted my childhood listening to that crap! Suffice to say i didn’t get confirmed! Lol.
It is my humble opinion that there are good apples and their are bad apples in every race or religion.
There are those who see what they are awarded by God as power/control over others, and there are those who see it as a responsibility to others.
But then there is always hope. “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, by their fruit you will recognize them” (not exact quote ;)- Jesus.
There are those who gather and those who divide. Let us not stand in the way of those trying to gather.
Wasn’t jesus “king of the jews” after all?
“Wasn’t jesus “king of the jews” after all?”
No…
Matthew 27:11 –
Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
“Yes it is as you say,” Jesus replied.
Mark 15:2 –
“Are you the king of the Jews? Asked Pilate.
“Yes it is as you say,” Jesus replied.
Luke 23:3 –
So Pilate asked Jesus “Are you the king of the Jews?”
“Yes it is as you say” Jesus replied.
Someone claiming to be ‘king of the Jews’, or even being accused of claiming to be ‘king of the Jews’, doesn’t make them so.
One last quote cos i think its kinda relevant….
Mark 28
The Greatest Commandment.
One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbour as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices”.
When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God”.
Not so much stirring the pot Barry as buying into classic far right conspiracy theories that have historically identified evils then tried to attach Jews in general to those evils by fingering those that are. I don’t know where you get your info from (though I’ve could make some educated guesses) but it’s way off the mark. I’m Jewish, though not religious, and have met a lot of Jews in the 53 years I’ve been on this planet. I’ve never met a Jewish banker yet. I’ve met Jewish taxi drivers, tailors, postmen, secretaries, teachers, social workers, warehouse workers, nurses, driving instructors, boxers and one Jewish clown etc but no bankers. We’re dealing with systems and ruling classes not ethnicities or religions.
Thank you to the signatories of the statement.
It’s frustrating to read many of the above comments.
Anyone interested in Jewish activities to support Occupy London; or in Jewish events at the occupation; take a look at the Occupy Judaism London facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/282485981781969/
Jewish activists have so far organised an Occupy Shabbat, an Occupy Sukkot and an Occupy Simchat Torah, with plans for a Jewish teach-in in the pipeline.
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/57206/israel-tent-city-inspiration-occupy-london-protest
You are another one to get me all wrong! I’m not here saying jews are the route of all evil! But i can show you lots of high level bankers that are jewish! They have had a long standing and well documented history with money lending and banking! It’s apparently in the bible old testiment that it’s ok for jews to lend to foreigners but not their brother! Basically it’s ok to get other people in debt! But not another jew! That alone in my opinion is immoral!
Now my main point was ALL religion should be kept away from this movement! And for a faith or religion that holds views like i described are hypocritical to comment on the occupy movement!
Do you say that, conversely, this movement should keep away from all religion and leave St Paul’s? Were you jeering at and heckling the speakers at the Sermon on the Steps on Saturday when they voiced their support? I didn’t hear you. Are there any other supporters you’re not in favour of?
Why would they need to leave st pauls? Are they there because of religion? No! They’re there because they had little other choice! And now the nice warm loving christians want them gone! I’ve studied the bible quite a bit, the jesus depicted in it would of let people sleep inside the bloody cathedral!… I’m not saying religious people can’t be part of the movement! But it shouldn’t be about religion! Pitching a tent outside a church does not make it about religion!… It’s merely lack of choice! If the bankers hadn’t got the police to lock down the financial district they wouldn’t be at st pauls!
I was not there at the sermon and i wouldn’t of attended because i don’t support religion. I was at occupation the first weekend, i travelled from coventry to be there, i’d still be there now if my partner wasn’t heavily pregnant… I think the movement is great, the religious posturing not so great! Let’s just get back to the real issues!
Ah, but I’m afraid the protest is very much associated with the cathedral, and therefore with religion. Why else are all the TV camera crews there? No, I’m afraid everyone will have to decamp to Finsbury Square to avoid associating themselves with religion.
The cathedral has made the issue with the protesters! The media are there because the “christians” want to evict peaceful protesters! This is in no way associating the people of the movement with religion! More so highlighting that the so called christians are far from christian!…
However, if the protesters want to move camp, thats cool… Even though i feel they’ll have little choice!
I’m not saying that though! The point is jewish people have had a long standing history with money and lending etc… Infact as you mention they still do! People lent money at that time typically so they could eat while awaiting their crops! It is immoral to earn money off people that are on hard times! Also if it were another jew they would not charge interest! It’s wrong!… All religions are as bad in their own way! I’m only singling out judaism because the article is about that faith!…
In a way i suppose you could say the jewish were like the gypsies of today, they stick together, rarely mixing with non jews. that is why some people feel gypsies are alien! Because they make themselves alien! Indians also stick together like that, i worked with a young seek guy, if he saw an indian elder he would call him uncle as show of respect! He didn’t seem to have such respect for white english old folk! That kind of thing is bound to alienate!
Also i’m jewish, but not religious… What kind of shit is that? No offence yeah but judaism is a bloody religion! How can you declare yourself as part of a religion but not be religious! It’s like all the fools that call themselves catholic but do not go to church or even pray! Or hell they don’t even believe in god! Lol… But hey they were born into a catholic home so must be catholic right? Pfft!
What is wrong with just being a human being living on earth? We should step out of these boxes we’re put in! If you see yourself as human then it doesn’t matter if you’re black, white, indian, chinese, or whatever! We’re all unite as HUMANS!
Yeah, just so long as you’re not Jewish!
How are you jewish if you don’t believe in it? Or you’re not religious? That’s ridiculous!
Judaism is a state of mind, or a theology, not a physical characteristic! You choose to call yourself a jew! Even though you openly admit to not be religious! It’s laughable, i’m sorry. It’s just as crazy as non religious people celebrating christmas! Out of curiosity do you celebrate it? If so do you also celebrate ramadan? Lol…
Did you press the right Reply button there?
Yes!
Who exactly is the “Jewish Community”. Are we only talking of orthodox Jews ? Has everyone with Jewish ancestry in London voted to support this demo ? Grateful if someone from the “Jewish Community” would clear this up.
I used to live in Israel & I doubt the government would have tolerated this sort of protest messing -up the wailing wall or the Knesset for that matter !!
“As members of the British Jewish community……’We see this”
The signatories are only claiming to speak for themselves (how could it be otherwise?) not for the entire ‘community’
No – this is just nonsense. The Jewish religion, and any culture built on it, is racist. People from any background should be welcome to join the movement, but not if they come “as Jews”. You get statements such as “Our Jewish heritage includes a long tradition of reshaping society to help the least fortunate”. Where is the condemnation of Jewish racism. Don’t bother listening to this Trojan-horse rubbish. I’d recommend http://www.gilad.co.uk (website of Gilad Atzmon) for more sense.
That would be the same Gilad Atzmon who said:
““American Jewry makes any debate on whether the ‘Protocols of the elder of Zion’ are an authentic document or rather a forgery irrelevant. American Jews do try to control the world, by proxy””
Yes clearly this Jewish conspiracy theorist crank, is a fantastic authority on, um, the jews.
Here’s my take:
You shouldn’t prejudge people just on their race/religion, because even people from groups we don’t like (whichever groups those are) can choose to reject their upbringing/indoctrination and do the right thing.
However, in this case, it seems that the writers of the Jewish Statement of Support are just jumping on our bandwagon to make Jews look good. Look how much of what they wrote is about themselves and how wonderful and peace-loving they are. Most of us are probably aware of the ruthless persecution the Palestinians are enduring. For this reason I’m not sure that posting this on our website was the right thing to do.
You say “You shouldn’t prejudge people just on their race/religion, because even people from groups we don’t like (whichever groups those are”
Oh do tell us, which groups don’t you like? Since it appers that the ruthless oppression of the palestians that you mention, shapes your view not only of the Israeli government but of jewish people in general.
He’s right, you shouldn’t prejudge people based on their religion, not sure why he mentioned race as that is not the issue here… Anyway yeah people can leave the religion, as i’ve said it’s a CHOICE to be jewish! And hey if someone was born into a jewish family and realised it’s wrong and left i’ve no problem with them. However, when their religion states that getting other “foreigners” into debt is cool but not other jews and they support that, i’ve got a problem!
I also am discusted with what’s happening over israel and palestine! Look at it this way, if i bought the palestines some weapons, would i be considered aiding terrorism? Certainly! Yet the americans and probably the british though i’m not sure, buy israel every weapon they like! And that’s apparently fine!
Our government recently changed the law so people could’nt hold foreigners to account for war crimes when they visit our land! Now only the government can make that decision! This is to allow israelies to come here! I mean what were they worried about if they’ve done nothing wrong! The court would find that out surely? What a joke!
Oh and he’s dead right about them jumping on the band wagon! That’s all it is, they had a chance to highlight evil christians and they took it! They happen to be right about the christians in this case, but they are no better!
In my first paragraph I was stating the general principle, hence the relatively vague phrase “whichever groups those are”. I wasn’t trying to hide the fact that I’m opposed to the behaviour of (the majority of) the Israelis towards their Palestinian neighbours.
And I don’t know where you got the idea that I hate all Jews, in violation of the aforementioned principle. All I said was that the Palestinians are being persecuted (I didn’t say all Israelis are responsible) and that the nine rabbis who wrote this statement probably had an ulterior motive.
Is there a moderator for all of this? Some way to flag posts? There’s already a ton of “Occupy… is an anti-semetic movement” doing the rounds on all the right wing blogs, US ‘news’ channels and other right-wing media. The comments here are not helping.
I’m aware that any anti-establishment movement, especially anti-greed movements, are bound to attract a number of cranks, crackpots and anti-semites but these people tarnish by association and too many groups have been dragged down by a misguided ideal of allowing all to have their say no matter how hateful and divisive their views may be. They can have their freedom of speech in any number of other places on the internet.
As someone who has trouble making it out the front door at times, I am very appreciative of all that is being done on the behalf of so many and as Barry himself has alluded to, his views have not been warmly welcomed at the camp itself so it would be a shame to have the image tarnished by such people painting all over the comments sections with their bigotry.
Lmao what a fool!… Nothing of what i say is bad! I don’t care how other people see it! I know that the belief of lending to one human as ok but not another is devisive! I didn’t write that! Did i? I didn’t make the jewish community come!
People like you never actually question or comment on the content! You merely react to the fact that i didn’t lick the jews bums! It makes me sick!
One silly old man had a problem with what i said! And after a discussion he actually apologised! Way to jump on somethig like that! Lol… My opinions were very well recieved as it goes! Because you see i talk common sense! Not religious posturing and pulling out bs racist cards!
I think you should really try to get out a little more! You might learn something other than what the tv tells you!… Hey moderators can’t you remove comments that condemn free speech? Lol
The classic use of antisemitism has been to use it to deflect criticism of the system on to an ethnic or religious group and to enable those with actual power to maintain power. Apart from antisemitism being plain wrong (and stupid) it is also harming and weakening the movement against capitalism.
And for the person recommending Gilad Atzmon, perhaps you don’t know that Atzmon spends quite a bit of his time pushing material by holocaust deniers. they in return are big fans of his. Atzmon is proud to call himself a “self-hating Jew”, which only proves that you don’t even have to be non-Jewish to be an antisemite!
Genuine supporters of the occupy movement will hopefully recognise what’s going on here and welcome the support of occupy judaism in the genuine spirit in which it appears to be intended.
i’ve no problem with anyone coming to occupy london from any background! But come as a human being! Stay there! Protest! Don’t use your religion to try and score points! And if religions continue to spread oppression and hate and greed i will continue to criticise it! Whether it be church of england or bloody judaism! I am anti bullshit religion (that’s ALL of them)… Notice something here, i’ve criticised muslims, catholics, church of england AND judaism! So far people only have a problem that i comment on the jews!!! Now tell me, who are the real racists here?
Barry, you’re full of shit and anyone reading through this can see you’ve only brought up other religions when challenged on the Jew baiting crap you write. I know you’re operating under the delusion that other people are generally stupid enough to eat the shit you’re shovelling up.
When I want your bullshit opinion I’ll ask for it.
Well hello paul, just one or 2 things, firstly you say i only mentioned other religions when challenged, is that so? How about in my first comment?
“Anyway i get suspicious
when any religions get involved! Religion is part of oppression! It’s
part of the tyranny and wars!”
Really, you should try harder to read! And as a matter of fact, a few days before this thread there was another calling for all faiths to attend the occupation, i commented on there too, not even mentioning jews as it wasn’t the subject! This one happens to focus on jews! So surprise, surprise as did my comment! Though i made it clear i’m anti all religion!
You also do not comment on the actual content of my comments! I’m rather dubious as to whether you read any at all!
To be honest all the hate seems to be coming from the jewish camp!
Oh and paul, i’m not sure you’re aware but this is the internet! For which no one has a monopoly! I do not have to be asked to give my opinion! Especially on a flaming comments board!
Well, I apologise for accidentally replying to your reply to someone else rather than your reply to me. Incidentally, my above comment should have left you in no doubt that I am completely aware that ”this is the internet”, you seem to be completely unaware that the site itself is a privately owned server and whether you’re allowed to comment here is completely down to the site owner.
Otherwise, my comment stands. Yes, you are perfectly free to place a comment here, that doesn’t make you any less of an arsehole or your comments any more welcome. Don’t confuse being technically able to do something with its being OK.
I agree with the first part of what you said, i’m more than happy for ANYONE of ANY belief system to attend and protest! I mean, i don’t suppose any of these religious leaders actually pitched a tent now did they? While i was at the camp i met a couple that were lesbian pasters, i did try not to laugh! Not because they’re lesbian, i couldn’t give a damn what they do in the bedroom! But to be lesbian and preach the bible is beyond belief! Didn’t they read the part about sodom and gemora? (sorry not sure on the spelling)… They were lovely people, but obviously deluded!
But hey i guess i’m racist and piling hate on lesbian pasters now! Lol
As for the other part i can’t really comment as i’ve never read the guys stuff.
MY COMMENTS HAVE BEEN ILLEGALLY REMOVED,so much for free speech,told you this movement is ran by zion jewish people the inner sactum…..!there is a word press blog,it exposes the mason jews..not the rest of normal good jewish community across world who we all love very much……the exposee is this altaman is trying to own all new drugs made…oscars,mgm,parmount,warner bros,and most actors in hollywood are jews m,asons,not normal jews……..they control finance….!before jew central banks,mervyn king is an evil mason, silver money was free,people bought land cheap and free 35 cents an acre!the evil cabala,rotocrucians,mystery schol of bayblon and eygpt! even the police are masons…..there founder robert peel a masonic jew……….
Sir Robert Peel, a staunch opposer of Catholic emancipation (Catholics being allowed to sit in Parliament), and who is credited with breeding the Tamworth Red breed of pig, who was known by the nickname ‘Orange Peel’ was a “Mason Jew” who knew? /sarcasm.
Barry and the other people on here free-associating ‘Jewish’ with moneylending and capitalism, why don’t we meet to talk about this at Occupy one day?
That might be a nice way to discuss it and to put across a Jewishness to you that is about social and economic justice, rather than trying to discuss things on here.
Up for it?
Certainly, are you up for paying for my train fare from coventry?
I don’t see how you could do that though when the jewish belief is you can lend foreigners (non jews) with whatever interest you like! But you can’t lend to other jews with interest! How is that social and economic justice? How? How can most of the top bankers be jewish yet hold the qualities you talk of?
It’s not even about jewish really, it’s RELIGION! It’s spreads hate and oppression either via force or guilt! This is not needed in our society! Case in point, a guy up there says he’s jewish, yet he’s not religious! Why the hell is he calling himself jewish? Because of guilt! Because it’s been drummed into his head by family and community that he IS jewish! I say no! He is human! The human box is one we can ALL happily stand in together! Noone left out and no segregation!
I would 100 percent love to come and debate my feelings with you, though i feel it would fall on deaf ears!
I’ve got nothing against any individual, of course unless you are immoral, ie you kill people, cheat people, steal off people, etc etc. Common sense morality! Not religious indoctrination! I must say i do hate the fact that as soon as you mention a jew, you are racist! I mean really, mentioning that i saw a documentary that had jewish people saying jewish people only buy jewish wine, is racist? Wtf! This was a mainstream documentary i saw years ago! Literally for recounting something i saw is racist? It pisses me off no end! Not to mention the fact judaism is not a race but a religion! People will say things about muslim and christian and any other crack pot religions and it’s fine! Judaism for some reason is a no go! Well not for me, i’ll comment on all the hypocritical nonsense! If it makes me “racist” (still makes me chuckle) then so be it.
Good idea, Geoffrey.
I’m afraid we can’t pay your train fair form coventry because, unlike the Jews of your imagination, we’re not rich. But next time you’re down in London, our offer stands, lets meet at Occupy and talk these things through in a friendly way. Discussing it online is going to lead us nowhere, whereas I really think you might start to see things differently if you were to meet us and find out what we’re actually about. So can we agree that, and have the discussion there rather than here?
So hang on a minute, now you’re saying we should talk things through in a friendly way, right after you make snide comments about my “imagination”?
Instead of using pathetic ad hominem attacks why don’t you address the issues here for all to see? It seems you wouldn’t actually want the debate to be written down for some reason? Why is debating on the internet so unacceptable? Isn’t it kind of the purpose of the internet? You know to connect people that are far apart? We could even talk this through via skype? But to be honest, so far i’m not that impressed, resorting to ad hominem on your second message isn’t exactly inspiring confidence!
I mean do you deny there are top jewish bankers? Really? Would you like me to get a list for you to check?
Still, i would come, however, my partner is heavily pregnant (3 weeks to go!) so it won’t be for some time… It would be much more convenient if we could utilize the amazing tool we have, called the internet.
But look one more thing, i’m not doubting you guys are nice genuine people! I’m not saying all jewish people are evil and need to be killed! The same as i don’t say all muslim people are evil and need to be killed etc! What is evil is the RELIGIONS! I feel sorry for the people, i would like to help them break the psychological shackles they’ve been placed in! Religion is a powerful tool and it is without a doubt USED by the powers that be for whatever purposes they like! Religion is part of the problem!
I would erge you to listen to a song by lauryn hill, it’s on youtube called “i get out”… Listen to the words in that song! She pretty much nails it!
Some top bankers are not Jewish.
Some top bankers are Jewish.
Some top bankers are not Christian.
Some top bankers are Christian.
Some top bankers are atheist.
Geoffrey Cohen is a Jew.
Geoffrey has to pay interest if he borrows money from the bank.
Barry is not a Jew.
Barry has to pay interest if he borrows money from the bank.
Barry is obsessing about Jews and banking, and not looking at the entire history of the origins of money and banking. This is a very good primer, containing historically accurate information: Origins of Money and of Banking: http://projects.exeter.ac.uk/RDavies/arian/origins.html#exchange
Lol show me once where i say that ONLY jewish people are top bankers? I’ve also said several times it’s not about jews paying interest! It’s about them charging it to other jews! It’s against jewish law! But it’s acceptable for a jew to loan money to a non jew! That is just fact! I’m sorry that is fact, and it’s something that needs to change! As do the other religions you mentioned! I’ve mentioned several of them throughout this thread and others, but guess what? This article is about jewish people!… Why would i need to take in the wider aspect of money? As it happens i am but why would i need to, to see that’s not charging interest to your own, but charging it to everyone else is wrong! Unfair, unjust and RACIST!
Nice to see some boilerplate moronic anti-semtism in the comments thread. Barry, you are a bigoted prick and an embarrassment to the Occupy movement.
So again you’re another one to not actually comment on the content of my messages, you just pull and the same old boring racist card! Then you go on the call me names like a child!
I’m the embarrassment?
Your comments are not worth reading, so stop wasting your time.
As opposed to yours? Lol
Let me just answer this one first as it’s the easiest! Lol… I’ll try to stay calm… Ok here goes… I’M NOT SAYING JEWS CAN’T BE CHARGED INTEREST! I’M NOT SAYING JEWS DO NOT PAY INTEREST! Phew, ok was that clear enough?
I’m saying that it is a jewish belief that a jew should NOT charge another jew on a loan! Ok? Do you understand that? They also believe it is fine to charge FOREIGNERS (non jews) on loans! Do you understand that? It’s basically a we’re alright jack scenario!
Hope that clears it up?
NB – This is 100% untrue, Barry. I am a Jew – do you believe me?
Given that I directly contradicted what he kept writing about The Origins of Money and in reply he claimed that I was ‘proving his point’, it should be clear by now that Barry only sees what he wants to on this issue.
Likely he’s gone a few too many times around the inner ring road and it’s muddled his brain.
What you said did back up what i was saying! But like most others on this thread you have been brainwashed! I do a lot of research, even though people seem to think i just pull things out my arse!
I could’t really care less, i know what i know.
Loans and interest in Judaism… Google that mate and you will see you are completely 100% wrong! It’s actually against jewish LAW to charge interest on a loan! It’s seen as one of the highest sins! Yet perfectly acceptable to charge interest to a non jew!
Honestly you people think i just make shit up for fun or something?
Not all Jews are bankers, and there have been many demos in Israel against their austerity measures to.
This corrupt and fraudulant system effects people the world over from all backgrounds, races and nationalities.
And i am someone who, in my youth (to long ago now lol), used to be from what is described as the extreme right.
It seems strange to me that we are fighting about the influence of religions upon these protests when the protests are actually about the failure of Capitalism to explain or give reasons for its collapse. In many ways the protesters, knowing the substance of what they protest about ie. unfair banking and financial practices, the burden of the economic crises being shouldered by people who had nothing to do with the running of the City of London and who did not have stock and shares in collapsing markets. They see the terrible injustice of Boardroom Salaries and Bonuses increasing all the time, while the rest of the Nation suffers. Government, indifference to the suffering of the 99% of the populus, hurriedly put in place Laws which forbid anyone to contest their decisions. Yet they strip away money and benefits from the poorest, the least able to fight, the least able to stand up to Governement, and this they know is unjust and morally outrageous. Their Laws? From the nineteen thirties it seems. Possibly from Germany? See the way they deliberately targeted the disabled, the mad, the poor. And what Laws they have created – such Laws would have made Herod himself weep! The Governments commandment seems to be, if we cannot stop you from opposing us by cutting every entitlement, then we shall do so by turning the Law gainst you! What hope has a man when the Law is used as such an iniquitous weapon against its Own Nation? Did we not say “never again?” And yet, here we are.. and it IS happening again. Maybe not to the point where men, women and children dissappear overnight – never to be heard of again – but with the Government brutalizing, stigmatizing and branding – yes! Branding, as if with the hated number, as if with the hated mark.. And you.. are you too stupid to see what is in front of your noses? They may be Gentiles, but have we the right to ignore them – to let them sleepwalk into this disaster? So it happened then my friends – like a quiet lullaby on a Summer’s afternoon, like a gentle lapping of waves of the blue sea in Springtime. At first no-one said anything, except to ridicule the whole idea. How could such a small, insignificant man EVER come to power? His rants and his curled up fists, the imploring look in his dark, tiny eyes and that stupid little moustache? No-one took him seriously. NO-ONE! Yet, the nightmare still began – and we could not stop it! Had we resisted from the start, perhaps the things that came to pass might never have taken so many in such a way?
And we should all be very worried about the systematic dismantling of the welfare state.
The British Government has also set about destroying all the state and local authority services that were originally intended to protect and serve vulnerable people in our society. Those services have for many decades been provided by democratically elected local and national bodies, but NOW, the Government is trying to encourage private organisations (religious, private, charitable), who aren’t democratically accountable, to take charge and run of these services.
You do know that crying conspiracy theory is a complete establishment tactic! When clearly conspiracy happens all the time! People comprised to occupy london stock exchange. . . Talking about alien invasions to belittle actual conspiracies is pretty sad! You think governments and companies and banks do not conspire? Hell you can throw media and religion in there too!
Well i think it’s dangerous when you think people shouldn’t criticise people that act a certain way because of an indoctrination! All i talk about is what i’ve seen and learned!
It was in the bible that jewish people can not lend to their brother with interest! But they could lend to foreigners! If jewish people are not following that, good, but they are not following the jewish religion!…
I’m not on about average joe who calls himself jewish because his family is! That’s just like catholics that go to midnight mass once a year! This is not what i’m talking about!
This article was about the jewish leaders or rabbis expressing solidarity on behalf of the jewish community! For one, i’m sure they haven’t ask every jewish person! I’m sure they haven’t ask the super rich jewish bankers! Lol…
I don’t see why religion should be bought into the equation! Is this a religious movement?
This is my final comment here – really up for having a discussion about this, Barry, and correcting your misunderstandings of Jewish thought, and offering an alternative perspective to that which you’ve so far looked into. And you can let us know what you think.
This is a serious offer – all viewpoints within Occupy are to be treated with respect and discussed, including yours, no matter how much we disagree with them. But the best way to facilitate that is within the community at Occupy, where we can meet and talk face to face as equals. Internet discussion doesn’t lend itself well to that, whereby language can be misused, meanings misunderstood, and upset caused.
I understand that you’ve got family things going on at the moment, but given that Occupy isn’t going anywhere, why don’t we do it in a few months when things may be more calm for you?
My dear Revolutionaries.
We must not be confused about the problem and its solution.
The problem is the Power to create money out of thin air by a private corporation, and the solution is the abolition of this power, into the hands of the Government.
The bank of England is a private corporation.
Please, please educate yourselves on History and precisely what is going on.
It is a big scam, and the only way we can truly overcome these powerful wealthy interests is by truly UNDERSTANDING the whole scam.
Please visit my website where I have compiled all relevant information for the layman.
Watch the documentaries and videos to gain and understanding of what is going on, and how we are all being duped.
Knowledge is power, and we the people, once we fully understand the full extent of the SCAM, Will prevail.
I cannot stress it enough we EACH need to thoroughly UNDERSTAND exactly what is going on, I’ve been listening to the radio and TV and there is MUCH confusion over the direction and the message of the occupy movement. This needs to change.
Please watch the videos on the problem AND the proposed solution.
We ALL need to be clear on the message, and sing from the same hymn sheet!
Find the information on my website and all over youtube. http://www.moneyexplained.net
We shall prevail!
Educate yourselves.
It is heartening to see representatives from different faiths coming together to support this global movement which is asking for a proper dialogue about money, finance and unsustainable growth. It shows that all of us want the same thing at the end of the day. However, it is also a shame to see so many people using this site to post comments which are derogatory and ill thought out. All this does is perpetuate the mis-understanding between people of different religions or ideologies and reinforces stereotyping of the worst kind. I would urge that this site is not the place for sweeping generalisation and hurling insults, but the place where people can make their contribution to the global dialogue that is happening all around us.
Hear, hear! Dorset, thank you for adding such a civil and well-expressed comment to this thread. As a New Englander supporting Occupy Boston, I was stunned to read ancient misunderstandings and libels being resurrected in the context of a noble effort at progressive reform. Best wishes to all those at Occupy London who support your viewpoint.
OK, religious arguments are NOT going to help anyone here.
Re. jews and money (disclaimer: I am a member of Liberal Judaism):
(a) jews have been banned from many professions throughout history – occupations involving a lot of money have often been things they’re allowed to do, hence the dominance of jews in occupations like finance, diamond trade etc.
(b) there is part of the torah/old testament which can be translated as ‘jews can only charge interest to non-jews’, but as with all religious texts, it depends how you interpret this! Most of the passage is about not charging interest (like Islamic prohibition), which is likely intended to mean, you should only earn money from work, rather than from money itself. This is sensible and is surely a core part of the Occupy movement! One bit does talk about not lending money to outsiders, but that’s IN THE CONTEXT OF THE CULTURE OF THE TIME – the likely correct equivalent now is NOT don’t lend to ‘all non-jews’, but don’t lend to ‘people who are from far away and are therefore likely to run off with your money and not give it back’ – which again is sensible, and not intended to be discriminatory per se – indeed, perhaps giving out sub-prime mortgages to people who can never pay it back are a good example of why this rule is there?
(c) jews don’t all hold the same political beliefs – which is what I think the statement from the rabbis above is meant to try to emphasise to non-jews! Personally I think all those who have engaged in unethical practices in the financial industry, whether or not they profess to be jewish (or muslim, or christian), should be condemned.
Very modern and forward thinking Sarah.