Zombie Bank Run – 3pm Monday 31st October @ St Paul's

 

It’s time for the Zombie Bank Run – on Monday 31st October 2011 (tomorrow) meet at 1pm for make-up at St Paul’s Cathedral – for the run at 3pm. Come dressed as a Zombie Banker (old clothes advisable)!!

The route will be supplied on the day, but this is going to be ‘Thrilling’!

Meet at 3pm Sunday 30th October (today) for dance choreography at Finsbury Square EC1.

Link to Facebook ‘Zombie Bank Run’ – https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=221563884575642

 

67 Responses to “Zombie Bank Run – 3pm Monday 31st October @ St Paul's”

  1. This finally confirms that this occupation is an indulgence and a sham.

    There are thousands of organisations out there including charities, campaign groups and political parties who raise money, campaign and formulate policies in order to improve things they see as injust in the world. These people work extremely hard, often without recognition and really do make a difference to peoples lives.

    On the other hand you are abusing your right to protest by camping at St Pauls, ranting to each other about capitalism and indulging in banker bashing, bike rides and ‘thrilling Zombie Runs’. You constantly claim that you are achieving something special but in actual fact you’re achieving nothing apart from alienating your potential support base. Whilst everyone else is working hard to make a difference to the world you seem to think that you are somehow special, have a divine right to do what you want and will somehow make a difference by simply causing a nuisance.

    Have a good time on your Zombie event but understand that whilst you are having fun the rest of the populace will be actually working hard to support their families and contribute to the world.

     
    • c’mon dude you can’t be that miserable

       
      • sorry, my mistake trying to engage seriously

        have a good time at your event

         
        • To try and engage seriously with you…are you claiming that no protest is valid if it is enjoyable?

          Also what is this rubbish about the protest being wrong because it is causing a ‘nuisance’? ….. As if people having to pass by some tents on the way to a service or tourist attraction was some kind of moral outrage which must never happen again.

          Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what forms of activity do not cause any slight inconvenience to anyone and are therefore valid?

           
    • Thank god people like you don’t rule the world or the right to protest would be in serious trouble. Wait a minute… it is!

      Don’t so bitter because people are making their voices heard but you haven’t got the balls to speak up. Come down and talk to us instead of hiding behind your computer

      Peace

       
    • Clearly Dave you have no idea of history and protest! Various innovative cultural methods and troupes have been so integral to spreading and invigorating protests! You with your ‘You people who don’t work hard’ taunts which the enigma of capitalism has fed you! Just for your knowledge, lets share with you one of the famous lines in the history of protest and change, by Emma Goldman, the famous political activist
      “If I can’t dance, it’s not my revolution!
      If I can’t dance, I don’t want your revolution!
      If I can’t dance, I don’t want to be part of your revolution.
      A revolution without dancing is not a revolution worth having.
      If there won’t be dancing at the revolution, I’m not coming.

       
    • @matthew

      From experience, especially out on UK Uncut “big society bail ins” etc etc. Fun, exciting, light hearted direct actions DO engage.
      They attract attention, an audience gather, at which point you can chat, hand leaflets, lock web addresses and campaign names in their minds etc. They take something away and often go online and find more.

      I find standing on a street, speaking serioulsy into a megaphone handing out A4 sheets DOES NOT engage many. You are just “another radical nutter shouting- I’ll walk by”

      It takes a mix. Radical direct action coupled to quality information, follow up options.

      People also are more likely to join in pushing for change if its fun and different and NOT just more of the already broken systems boring methods.

       
    • most of the occupy group are also working hard to support their families too my old son. however those who are lucky to be able to work ,are also donatjng their spare time to try to help our race. er the human race. and some even take time off and so are donating their cash too, what time or money have you donated? however regarding the zombie run, it is defo not at all helpful to us having people either drunk or stinking of booze trying to engage people on occupies sites. i thought that made us look like a bunch of yobs. we need publicity yes, but the right kind only please folks. it should ,in my opinion, be brought befor the next G.A. to either limit the time to allow booze on site or ban it totaly. i lean twards the later myself! and being a recoverd dependant apon substances myself ,i do understand some (a tiny few) may be alcohol dependant,most arent. as im not on site for next couple of days, maybe sum1 could please put this forward for us? Thanks. OCCUPY; a place or engage in debate or just spread the word, but please (everybody) get involved. this is OUR WORLD and we are the 99%, this is where we make our stand!!! Mike.xxx

       
  2. The world is a sham because of the 1 percent top most powerful in society. they have bought their way into the crisis and now want to buy their way out of it. Whether you approve or not, the Occupation has got everyone talking about the most powerful in society who are responsible for the economic crisis. Before this, there was a consensus for ‘cuts worse than Thatcher’ in Britain. The charities that you talk of are also being decimated by the Tories and their banker mates. Get your priorities right. history will judge those who stood up and did something about the wrongs in society, and the lesson of history is that people are always ridiculed for making a stand at the time.

     
  3. I’m sad to read these comments as whilst I’ve tried to offer some constructive criticism I have just been met with personal insults. You call me bitter but this is simply not the case. You also say I’m hiding behind my computer but I have indeed visiting the occupation. You also imply that I am against the right to protest, without asking me and again you are wrong. I am absolutely in favour of the right to protest and the fact we have it is one of the greatest things about this country. However, as I said, I think that this occupation is abusing that right

    I don’t know you so I won’t make comments about your character. It’s clear you believe what you are doing is right but please take a step back and see how the actions of this occupation can be seen by other people. Other people who, by the way, are not necessarily your enemies.

    Peace to you to.

     
    • D – sorry my previous reply was written before I saw your note.

      I happen to agree with some of what you say on the current financial crisis and the current government as did many people before this occupation and as will many still after it.

      The issues I have a problem with are exposed by your own comments which I quote below

      ” history will judge those who stood up and did something about the wrongs in society, and the lesson of history is that people are always ridiculed for making a stand at the time.”

      On this issue, I don’t think you are doing anything useful about the ills of society. I think you’re indulging in your camp, abusing your right to protest, engaging in gross exaggeration, having fun insulting bankers, going on Zombie Runs, constantly complaining about everything and coming up with no solutions for a better system never mind a method of achieving this system. I contrast this, again, with the many many people who work extremely hard to make the world a better place.

       
      • Mate, you said right at the top of this thread that there are already lots of small organisations that work hard without profit to further the same causes of the occupation protests. I work for a small arts organisation that has charity status. We are funded by the Big Lottery. We work with disadvantaged groups that wouldn’t normally access arts and culture in order to break down barriers to learning etc… as much as I work my butt off to help build this bridge and make a difference I know deep in my heart that something about it just doesn’t work. I often spend more time filling in forms, “evidencing” work and ticking boxes. I have to game the system just to continue doing what I’m doing and after all that I’m left feeling a bit empty, like its all just a pointless exercise. This isn’t just my experience, it’s common amongst a lot of people I know.
        This OCCUPY thing is different somehow. I’ve spent three nights down at St Pauls right at the beginning. I can’t put my finger on it, but the participation feels real. I think the opportunities for this movement to grow and make a real difference are based in it’s opposition to the current paradigm as a whole. Basically, if you need to change the game (and I think everyone broadly agrees that the game needs to be changed to make it fairer for all) then the best place to start is the pitch you play on. That’s what the occupy movement does for me and everyone who participates in it. They talk about it being a horizontal rather than hierarchical system. It’s a blank canvas and it belongs to the people. I work with young people who come through the social care system. I would love to take them down to OLSX and let them get involved. Somehow I instinctively know that they would find it truely heartwarming.

         
        • Jim, your arts organisation sounds fantastic and I am saddened that your work is hampered by bureaucracy. However, I am sure that what you are doing is not a pointless exercise even if your work is not helping as much as you would like. Please don’t give up on this to chase a pipe dream of a revolution.

          We do not disagree on this existence of a huge amount of injustice in the world, but on whether the current occupation of St Paul’s does any good.

          I think that the movement has the following problems

          1. The problem is exaggerated. Note that I say exaggerated but in no way deny that a problem exists. By attacking everything about ‘the system’ you ignore everything that is good. Free education, health service, minimum wage, security and a still very large economy. Compare this to some other countries and certainly against most times in history. Please stop attacking ‘the system’ in general and focus on specific problems like corruption and in equality.

          2. The movement is abusing its right to protest. By camping at St Paul’s this movement effectively declares that it is more important than any other protest group or cause. This is undermined by point 3.

          3. Lack of effective solutions. I cannot see any concrete and reasonable (we can’t abolish money or banks) alternatives coming from the protest.

          4. The perceived indulgence of the protest. By camping at St Paul’s holding zombie runs, playing football and music etc it seems that this occupation is just having fun whilst the rest of the world is working hard to make a living and contribute to society.

          I probably won’t post again as I have really said my points and listened to other people. I’m sure your intentions are good but I disagree with the path you appear to be taking.

           
          • Thanks for your feedback. I know what you mean. don’t get me wrong, there is a lot of good stuff happening out there, but can’t you see that most or all of the good stuff out there is good, despite of the system and not because of it? I’m not criticizing the good stuff i’m criticizing the system. Surely you can see that?
            you said “Please don’t give up on this to chase a pipe dream of a revolution.” ….I know revolutions have a history of turning out bad. I don’t think of this movement as a revolution. It’s not about replacing one leader with another. Its about getting rid of leaders altogether! the internet is a system that seems to operate according to natures operating principles. Young people all over the world are telling us this NOW. The transition will take time but it’s happening as we speak. You are experiencing it and you can’t deny it. The occupy movement is moving towards this. You say that the problems are being blown up out of proportion. You think protesters are just getting carried away. I have no doubt that in some cases you are right, but if you look outside your world and see the kinds of conditions some humans have to live in you can’t deny that it’s all rigged against them. What will it take to change this? What can people like you and me do? Einstein said you can’t solve a problem using the same consciousness that created it. Some how we all need to change the way we think about it. The only way I can see us changing is by getting together and talking about it without the restrictions that seem to prevent us from doing so. I have a family, friends and a job that pays a comfortable wage. A year ago I would have said the same as you. I’ve change the way I think. There is a much better world for us all that I know is there for the taking. If we don’t wake up soon it might all be taken away. peace

             
          • 1. The problem is exaggerated. Note that I say exaggerated but in no way deny that a problem exists. By attacking everything about ‘the system’ you ignore everything that is good. Free education, health service, minimum wage, security and a still very large economy. Compare this to some other countries and certainly against most times in history. Please stop attacking ‘the system’ in general and focus on specific problems like corruption and in equality.

            * * * * * * * * * *
            Yes the UK is better than many less developed countries or less democratic or less socialist countries. But are you seriously claiming that any criticism of the system must be prefaced by a list of positive things?

            … oh and by the way much of your list is under threat
            * * * * * * * * * *

            2. The movement is abusing its right to protest. By camping at St Paul’s this movement effectively declares that it is more important than any other protest group or cause. This is undermined by point 3.

            * * * * * * * * * *
            I don’t see that occupying a public space and being willing to change things to minimise disruption is in anyway an abuse of the right to protest – can you please explain your logic?

            That protest group A – takes action B does not have any bearing on the ability of other groups to take other actions.

            * * * * * * * * * *
            3. Lack of effective solutions. I cannot see any concrete and reasonable (we can’t abolish money or banks) alternatives coming from the protest.
            * * * * * * * * * *
            I would agree that it would be nice to see some more focussed suggestions. However having visited I see there is a gradual process of consensus building which is going on thus it would be wrong to pre-empt this with detailed demands which might not be agreed by all. For what it’s worth these would be my suggestions:

            ====> Reinstate Glass-Steagal i.e split investment & retail banking

            ====> Close the ‘carried interest & capital gains loopholes’ so that earnings from speculation and investment are taxed at the same rate as income.

            ====> Shift some of the burden from income tax to wealth tax like the Swiss model.

            ====> Ban corporations from lobbying

            ====> Pass Revolving Door Legislation to prevent people from moving directly from working for regulators, civil service or politics to the corporations they regulate.

            ====> Introduce mandatory randomised 0.5 to 2 second delay into trades to prevent high frequency trading (also known as front running)

            ====> Investment banking to move to an unlimited liability model where traders & owners are personally liable for losses as well as gains (like the Lloyds of London names were)

            ====> Actually prosecute some bankers for once…
            * * * * * * * * * *
            4. The perceived indulgence of the protest. By camping at St Paul’s holding zombie runs, playing football and music etc it seems that this occupation is just having fun whilst the rest of the world is working hard to make a living and contribute to society.

            * * * * * * * * * *
            Weird comment?

            You are claiming protests are somehow invalid if they are not hair shirted and that ‘working’ for money is morally superior to any other activity such as working for change.

            * * * * * * * * * *

             
    • well said David, tho perhaps not totaly constructive, your point here is a very valid 1. de or constructive is not only in the wording of a statement, but also in the recception of said. but as far as this protester is concerned all critisism is most welcome, and wher a few are, lets say, more passionate in their responcess. most people ive met in the movement respect all veiws and opinions, both for and against. this is who we are, equallity, fairness and freedom thruout our world!!!

       
  4. Any chance that in between bike rides and zombie runs that you could publish all the General Assembly and Working Group minutes, including those that were published and removed? I’m not being funny but without these, there’s no evidence to suggest that you’re coming up with alternatives to an undemocratic and unjust system, and I’m in agreement with Dave Matthews above; whilst not wanting to stop anyone from having fun, this does sound like an indulgence when you have media interest and therefore the opportunity to come up with something profound and get that message across.

     
    • errrr can’t have fun? you want all the notes from everything that has been said….errrrr why don’t you start asking big corporations for their notes first and see where you get? chill man

       
      • So you have now decided to censor the records of meetings? And you consider it inappropriate for someone to ask what exactly you have been discussing ??

        I note that the minutes of the first few days of the occupation were on the website but have now been removed. Was this due to the embarrassing nature of the discussions ? As I recall the main topics of conversation were drugs & alcohol.

        Perhaps people viewing this site would be more supportive if they could actually confirm that the general assembly has moved onto to more serious business than spliff-smoking.

         
        • G.A.s our kinda an open forum but i do beleive more is being done to bring more info to the website. mayhaps minutes taken could be posted, if those handsome and er hairy(?) folks at I.T. could be asked to do so. i for 1 arent able to attend all GAs to know all i want or even need (i rek) to about whats currently happening. plus it would inform the supporters who cant make it to london?

           
    • Einstein also said this in 1949 in his article – why socialism?

      “The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.”

       
      • Then again what does Einstein know. Nothing eh? 😉

         
        • not physics if those faster than light particles are confirmed by C.E.R.N. that kinda rocked my universes (and not in the good way) ill probably just cease to exist and become a right banker if that happe………………………………………..would you like a mortgage sir/madam? Well you cant have one, your too poor. wahahahaha!!!

           
    • “if i can’t dance i don’t want to be part of your revolution”
      —http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Emma_Goldman#Living_My_Life_.281931.29

       
  5. in response to Dave Mathews – u may not have personally insulted anyone but you are clearly blinded by your prejudice. I have listened to phone ins, read articles and message boards like this one are alight with discussion of the merits of the capitalist system as opposed to the socialism as taught by Jesus Christ. Contrary to your remarks the protest is extremely successful in stimulating debate. Furthermore, the zombie run is not just the bit of fun you are suggesting -it is a clever satire aimed at a specific section of the financial community, who have wilfully and irresponsibly persued capitalist investment banking strategies to the verge of global meltdown. The demonstration IS in fact bringing attention to a specific behaviour that people would like to see change, The’charities, campaign groups and political parties who raise money, campaign and formulate policies in order to improve things they see as injust in the world.’ are in no way being harmed by the protest and i’m sure the majority of the protesters would be happy to follow alternative policies put forward by these organisations if they had any real power.
    I’m really not sure why you seem to think the protest is flippant or insulting to hard working people. You seem to be wilfully missing the point.

     
    • amen…sometimes there seems to be a resistance to the resistance

       
  6. I’m with Dave Matthews and Jim on this, I’m following the London and New York occupation sites daily, and in general am extremely optimistic about the worldwide movement as a whole, but as far as I can tell from the site, occupylsx has spent the last week in a dispute with some rich guys in dresses that believe in faires.

    What news of the new occupation ? What of the minutes ? How is the movement evolving ?

    I was glad that tonight I saw something at the top of the page not involving St Pauls, then I cottoned on to the theme – a zombie theme… surely you’re not serious ? – well, patently not I’d say.

    The way I see it, the occupy movement is in phase 1; that being to wake up the majority of the 99% that haven’t yet spotted the financial and political scam that enslaves them.

    Dressing up as zombies, great fun as it may be, is not the way to convince folk of the very serious message you’re trying to get out, you’re just inviting criticism and ridicule; and the generally dispicable UK press will no doubt see that you get them in spades.

    You have taken on a heavy burden in starting this, and you have my wholehearted support and that of many others that can’t be there with you (I’m a disillusioned Brit living in Asia to escape the nightmare my country has become) but this jape you are planning smacks of indulgence and the desire to have a good chuckle; you need to be a bit more stone-faced about it to convince the masses, surely.

    The zombie theme just dilutes the message and gives the people and press something to focus on that has nothing to do with what you’re trying to achieve.

    I applaud the fact that you are there, and staying, but this is way more important than fun and you need to be smarter about the media, they will tear into you with this, which is a huge shame.

     
    • the media changes. zombies are cool. you live miles away. shut up

       
      • The generally despicable UK media hasn’t changed at present though. Maybe it will in time, but you will be analysed by the current media, which I believe will paint you as a bunch of kids dressing up and having a laugh; as a result far fewer of the public that might have listened to the underlying message will do so because their favourite newspaper will focus on the zombie thing.

        Zombies are indeed cool, the recent spate of mainstream films and the like have firmly instructed society as such. Something else will be cooler next month no doubt, but that doesn’t make zombes or the next craze great bedfellows with a serious protest.

        Yes, I live a long way away, I’m still part of the 99% though and was active in lawful rebellion in the years before I left, I have just as much a right to my say as any other.

        I didn’t shut up, I don’t generally buckle down to bland rudeness.

         
        • Okay, I will try to be more civilized. I think you have made a good point and I get it that you care for the movement. I understand that you were trying to give constructive feedback and I apologize for the rudeness. I have read extensively on the occupy movements across the world and believe that it is making a valuable contribution to a change in consciousness. Nobody seems to put there finger on what it is that is making it a success. I think I was defending the Zombie Run because just like thousands of other initiatives run by occupiers the world over it comes from the right place. next week something else will happen and the week after. the ideas will keep coming as more and more people wake up. I spent two nights at st pauls on the first weekend. I’ve never been to a protest before in my life. The energy and will amongst those I met and spoke to was just brilliant. I can’t believe how much progress has been made when I see the livestream and updates through twitter. Its ace! Carry on being inspired

           
          • I was initially against the occupy tactics – i.e. constantly shouting “make some concrete demands” and “stop dressing stupidly”, “try to be as normal as possible”….feeling it (like adbusters itself) is a bit of an indulgent game for left leaning middle class to play and feel worthy without having to make any difficult decisions (like organic vegetables)

            But as time goes on it seems this very lack of focus is what is making it successful. Like some ‘values’ based advertising campaign it shouldn’t work but it does…. it’s very lack of clarity it seems to be provoking debate and changing consciousness.

             
          • >[I] believe that it is making a valuable >contribution to a change in consciousness.
            I think so too, it’s the best hope for some kind of rapid evolution od society we’ve had for… well, the best we’ve ever had come to think of it !

            >Nobody seems to put there finger
            >on what it is that is making it a success.
            I think we owe a lot to the Arab Spring, it’s awfully sobering to read that folk are still being gunned down by the dozen in the streets of Syria, their resolve must be an inspiration to the folk in ows and olsx and the hundreds of other occupations.

            >I think I was defending the Zombie Run
            >because …. it comes from the right place.
            Absolutely, I’ve no doubt as to the positive purpose of it and don’t think the zombie thing was decided because it’d be a good chuckle, as a poster elsewhere said, many themed events like this attract a better response than a drier, more factaul protest – I’d be more than happy to be proved wrong by the press emphasising the message rather than the outfits but fear otherwise, as we all know, the 1% have the media that most of middle england consult daily pretty well sewn up and acting as their megaphone.

            >I can’t believe how much progress
            >has been made when I see the livestream
            I wish I could watch that, comms here is lousy, good enough for browsing but not much more – I download stuff to watch later when I go to the mainland but cant do that very often.

            >Carry on being inspired
            You bet, I mentioned before that I left the UK as it had become a nightmare / nascent police state. I do feel some guilt at jumping ship raher than staying to add to the numbers opposing the elite so am most heartened to hear that things may be changing for the better 🙂 – even just feading about it from afar the whole movement verges on the eye-moistening at times, something pretty damn wonderful seems to be happening and I can barely believe it – if only the folk that are beavering so hard for their families just to stand still or even go backwards slowly and perhaps dont even have time to keep abreast of it could see what the movement is aiming for I’m sure vast tracts of the 99% would be swayed if they weren’t so necessarily focussed on just staying afloat.

             
  7. of course it is wise to be wary of the press, but i still contest that the image of the zombie banker is not a frivolous one and it remains to be seen how this will translate in the papers and on tele. Many protestors are young and have been politicised by the incompetence and indifference for their future, shown by those in power. As a parent myself I am embarassed by the way they are treated. Irreverance seems an understandable reaction.

     
    • the more creative the better…if you think the zombie idea is stupid you are stupid. if i’ve offended you, come up with something better

       
  8. – What do we want?
    – – A BETTER WORLD
    – When do we want it?
    – – JUST AFTER OUR ZOMBIE PARTY AND NEWS INTERVIEWS AND BEFORE WE UPLOAD OUR MINUTES AND WAIT A MINUTE, THERE’S A FAT BANKER THROW A PIE AT HIM HAVE YOU READ MY TWEET ABOUT EVIL CONSERVATIVES AND NICK CLEGG YET HELLO I’M ON TV SORRY I HAVE A SHORT SPAN OF ATTENTION AND HAVE TO GET A BUS HOME IN A SEC.

    You guys are all in the “B ark with the telephone sanitisers, documentary makers and marketing executives. Useless.

     
    • what are you on about? without being a TIT just say what it is please. don’t get your cock in a twist. has the MOVEMENT upset you?

       
      • There’s no need to be offensive to those that eloquently question what’s going on, it doesn’t help, and again indicates to any middle-England readers curious enough about what the movement is doing to read the comments that it’s just a bunch of foul-mouthed kids messing about, and it’s so much more than that.

         
  9. Great way to raise awareness. I think that’s what it’s all about at the moment. I hope you have fun and get some media coverage in the process!

     
  10. There will always be those who try to undermine.
    The problem with such tactics is sooner or later you become prone to subsidence.
    And a big fat load of dirt ends up on your head.

    These occupiers/protesters are trying to make a change for the better in this world we live in.
    They’re not causing anyone any harm, and having a little zombie run isn’t going to hurt anyone, it is as aforementioned a slightly satirical take on the current situation if nothing else.

    Whilst i can understand that it may well be viewed as a “a few randoms being a bit rare” by some people, lets not forget these people are giving up their time and energy to campaign for something which is beneficial to us all, they’re allowed to have a bit of fun from time to time no?

    Some people criticising must of been watching a bit too much bbc propoganda 1 methinks, or bbc bad shit 24 as i’ve come to call it. Tune in 24 hours a day and watch people suffer, ooh i feel like seeing what people are suffering today lets put bbc bad shit 24 on….Theres an equal amount of good stuff going on in the world that never gets reported about, yet part of the social conditioning tactic is to encourage people to become cold/numb and apathetic towards each other.

    How better than a global news channel where something bad is always going on? Where theres always a rapist on the loose or people wanting to steal your precious money, where humanity is portrayed in a darkened light, so people look at each other with shifty simpson’s dog eyes.

    This is just part of the very real psychological warfare campaign being conducted against the citizens of this country. There are other methods also utilized to control people, and lets not beat about the bush, the current global situation is not about money, or power, its about control.

    If you can’t control with fear, then resort to controlling with the purse strings.

    The people saying this is a bad thing/useless thing or wasted energy have been well and truly completely indoctrinated by the mindless brainwashing that surrounds them. It is to this effect that they are technically innocent, and should not be considered an enemy, but a potential friend.

    Those who eyes are open yet continue their ways are not innocent of their error.
    But God is good, and where there is a will there is a way. They have the chance to choose. I have heard it quoted “it is easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven” although that maybe true, it is Jesus’s continuation which i consider important…”All things are possible with God”. I.e there is always hope for those willing to accept their ways are wrong, and change for the better.

    Why dont we try taking the plank out of our own eyes and then perhaps we will be able to see clearly to remove the speck of dust from our fellow mans? – Jesus (again 😉 not exactly quoted ;). Or “to judge out of anything other than love is to enter into hypocrisy” as i’ve interpreted that =P.

    Then how might we be able to resolve the current situation?

    a few ideas to start at the very least…..

    1) Globally enforce corporate tax payable to the country the corp is operating in.
    Corps currently ship the majority of their income abroad to tax havens, its about time this stopped and the corporations took responsibility for the nations they are operating in. People who say lower the tax rate to entice corps back are somewhat deluded. They don’t pay any tax hardly as it is, they evade it because of lobbying (see point 2) and to lower the tax rate to retain these current social parasites is tantamount to social suicide.

    2) Ban lobbying. Laws that are passed in order to retain the vested interests of a select group of people are not ‘social laws’. They are a joke a sham and make a complete mockery of our law and justice system. They should not be allowed. Anyone found lobbying should face severe jail-time.

    3) Disband job recruitment agencies. These foul entities, are the king pin in the corporations plan. They usually entail stripping workers of every right they have remaining, (i.e workers can be hired fired with little/no notice) and paying them peanuts. This is a stealth job tax but worse! Corporations have found a way of removing the last remaining shred of responsiblity for their employees, by utilizing these beasts.
    What happens when a corp wants to relocate somewhere cheaper? They are not tied to that nation any longer because of job recruitment agencies. They can upsticks and leave as and when they see fit. And they do, and i’m sure if they are allowed to continue they will do, increasingly more frequently in the near future.
    Not only this but have you checked your local jobcentre lately? The ratio of jobs that are through job recruitment agencies is nearly 50% now.
    At the very least limit the amount of jobs available to such entities to 5% maximum. This encourages competition between agencies. Those doing good business will thrive, those who don’t will die off. We need to go back to ye olde way of doing business.

    Just my 2 cents anyways. 😉

     
    • thanks for saying what needed to be said about recruitment agencies. they do not care about people, period.

       
    • >These occupiers/protesters are trying to make a change
      >for the better in this world we live in.
      Absolutely, and I applaud them for doing so, I quite agree.

      >They’re not causing anyone any harm, and having a little
      >zombie run isn’t going to hurt anyone, it is as
      >aforementioned a slightly satirical take on the
      >current situation if nothing else.
      Perhaps I’m missing something but I don’t see the satire, if anyone can be portrayed as zombies it’s the 98% of the 99% that are still accepting of the status quo, those that believe the government, despite it’s faults has our best interests at heart and works for us, those that buy into corporate loyalty schemes with the impression that Tesco etc. do it to help the shopper, those that see any major corporate as some kind of friend, those that believe their government would never sacrifice its civilians in false flag events purely to further their own, undisclosed ends – those are the zombies surely.

      The elite that have stolen all the money, whether by outright fraud, corruption or legal forms of theft like leverage and short-selling have been pretty sharp about all this, and very much to our detriment; it’s only the advent of the internet to bypass mainstream media and the increasingly blase way the elite have been carrying out their shenanigans that has allowed as many as have woken up thus far to do so.

      If I could see the satire, maybe I wouldn’t be so down on the zombie idea. Of course, I’m all for the march itself, its great to read something other than arguments with clerics on the site and I hope it goes well, I just fear that when the average UK citizen chats about it with their colleagues the next day they’ll be talking about zombies, not about issues.

      >lets not forget these people are giving up their time
      >and energy to campaign for something which is
      >beneficial to us all, they’re allowed to have a bit
      >of fun from time to time no?
      Gosh yes, all strength to their elbows but the first serious, media visible activity for a week that doesn’t involve St Pauls is probably not the time to have that well-deserved fun, that’s all I’m saying.

      And yes, recruitment agents are slime !!

       
      • Chris, I applaud your continued patience and reasoning. And I fully agree with you on many points.

        I’ve been following this global movement for some weeks now, and today was my first opportunity to head to St. Paul’s and engage with the people involved.

        I think the fundamental difficulty facing the camp and the movement is that, while everyone there is united in the common goal of changing the current status quo, everyone has different ideas about how it should be done. And so, in order to come up with an organised strategy, there are (shock and horror) some politics involved.

        The irony isn’t lost on me. I sat through a general meeting this afternoon and was disappointed with a lot of the bickering, and a couple of individuals who seemed riled up for anarchy rather than constructive, diplomatic efforts to engage with the system as it stands. What many people fail to realise is that, like it or not, SOME kind of system has to be in place. Rules have to be laid out, and some people have to be entrusted with responsible leadership.

        I agree that we are all equal, and I was impressed with the organisers’ democratic system. But there were many who were dissatisfied. The stupid thing was, the meeting was about laying down some ground rules for respect and safety, rules that were pretty much just common sense and not worth arguing about.

        The Zombie run, if nothing else, has generated more public interest / awareness of the movement. I agree with you that the media has a nasty habit of twisting things to suit its agenda, and I’ve been dismayed with the coverage I’ve seen, as it does just paint everyone involved as immature kids with nothing better to do and completely ignores the message. But hell, it’s Hallowe’en. There’s nothing wrong with having a bit of fun. It frustrates me that the media has chosen to focus on the contention between the cathedral and the camp, which is not what the protest is about at all.

        I fully believe that there is a lot of potential in this global protest. But I agree with you that those involved need to be a lot more savvy about how they are portrayed to those at home. Marching and saying “The only good politician is a dead politician” makes people chuckle, but that kind of extremist language isn’t going to get us anywhere.

        A fair amount of people at the camp, sadly, DO seem to be there to rant about “the system” without offering constructive ideas for alternatives. But those RUNNING the place are a lot smarter, and working hard to get things moving.

        It’s been an interesting day; I am impressed and disillusioned in equal measure.

        Peace

         
        • A thoughtful and interesting post, and thanks.

          We’ll certainly need new systems to replace the skewed, corrupted ones we have and we’ll need representatives too; though properly and continously accountable ones that are not paid or otherwise renumerated any more to represent us than those they represent are paid – am a big fan of MPs or their replacement being paid the average wage or something like that, politics and representation of others should be a calling, not a career.

          I live on a small island with a population of under two thousand, we have no formal police and you can basically do what you like as long as you don’t harm or harry others, I don’t lock my front door despite this laptop being inside but this idyll doesn’t work when there are 5+ figure populations in tight knots – there are just too many of us humans to have a stable society through an almost total de-regulation of everything but I think it’s wise not to try to define the shape of things to come until somewhere near 99% of the 99% are on board – I believe that until that time it’s enough to define the aim as simply ‘we need a huge sea-change in how the world is run, firmly along the lines of people before profit’.

          In the meantime, as you say, there is a need to have some regulations / understandings about how the occupations should deal with day to day site necessities and issues but that’s seperate to what is to be done to the structure and management of society and you’re right of coursre, much of it is generally common sense, decency and respect for others.

          As for the cathedral and the camp, hopefully in not too long there’ll be another occupation elsewhere to make 3, then 4 and so on, as this happens the first camp at St Pauls will become less of a focus than it is now, which has got to help – I was of the opinion that they should move on, having established camp #2 but on reflection, think the implicit challenge to the church in being there is important, whether I like it or not, the church is a major player in the power game and the people need to know where they stand, and ideally, who it is that decides what stand they take (see list of trustees elsewhere, pretty much a straight sample of the 1% I’d say)

          And well done to Giles Fraser (?), a proper cleric by the sound of it, good to hear some in the faith are still up for upsetting the conceptual tables of the marketeers in the church.

           
  11. The thing is, you are all talking about “them” and “the rich” and all assusming its all some huge conspiracy. If you’re right you have absolutely no hope of achieving the things you’ve listed here without serious violence – the best you can hope for is to somehow precipate a general election and none of the parties who might win will be in a position to achieve these things either so you have no choice but to resort to violence or start a new political party, or infiltrate an existing one somehow.

    Thinks about it: “1) Globally enforce corporate tax payable to the country the corp is operating in.” how can any UK Government achieve that without international co-operation? or what about “2 Ban lobbying…” YOU are lobbying right now! and in any case you won’t be able to ban it, it will just go more discrete and disappear where you’ll never see it happening.

    If you want to do anything radical like the stuff you’re think of you will need a new political party and so will all the other countries who are in on this great conspiracy thing that you think is going on.

    Sorry, you’re deluded and you’re making the place look a mess. But have a good time with the Zombie thing, sounds like fun. Please clean up after it though,

     
    • Last thing we need is another political party!! I see what you mean but all the changes that need to be made, even the radical ones, will have to happen sooner rather than later. Political parties and the democratic process (which is way out of date) will not be able to keep up with it. That’s why we all need to get involved and participate – even if its messy. the people need to let the voices heard. The internet will show us how.

       
      • Quite, political parties are part of the existing system, which I, at any rate, want to see the very concept of dissolved. The last thing we need is for the occupy movement to become just another lobby group scrabbling with the others to try to influence the wicked machine that controls society, it’s way wider than that – the machine must be dismantled, we need a whole new machine, not another operator.

        IMO the occupy movement has been very canny in resisting the media’s demand for concrete demands and to put forward a leader/spokesbeing; these things are part of the current politics and the minute ‘occupy’ starts moving in those circles it is, I believe, doomed to fail.

         
    • Dear Rich,

      Here are my personal opinions on the matter at hand.

      In response to your counter argument to point 1) What is happening IS a global movement precisely what is required in order to bring about a much needed balance to our society as a whole.

      Point 2) Perhaps i should of defined this slightly better. What i disagree with is corporate lobbying, for either money or favours further down the line. Proposing ideas to make something better for everyone as a whole is not the same as “lobbying” that takes place currently. This backhand lobbying if you will needs to be eradicated asap. “Lobbying” should be done openly in a truly democratic environment. The House of lords/commons e.t.c is a completely archaic/draconian concept, perhaps what we need is an update/reform of the way things/ideas e.t.c are discussed in general?

      A new political party eh?

      So how are things currently done?

      You need money to run a campaign and to run constituents in every local area of the country. You need to do this if you have any hope of winning enough votes to get into power.

      O.k so lets analyse this a little further. You cannot actually vote for a party you may want to see into power unless their is a local party member in that area.
      This in itself is undemocratic. How is it fair that should i want to vote for say the green party, if their is no party member in my local area, then i am not allowed to vote for the green party as a whole?

      This is essentially robbing people of their vote. Or worse coercing them into voting for one of the “major” parties who are essentially the same bloody beast with a different face.

      You need money to run people in local elections throughout the country and to run a general campaign. So basically it comes down to who has more money so that they can put a member in each area.

      How is that ever democratic?

      The whole system is geared towards the retaining of power by those in charge. It is completely biased and i refuse to accept that what we are currently living in is a true “democracy”. And no it’s not a great conspiracy at all friend. It’s an extremely poorly thought through and implemented conspiracy because people are awakening to the world around them. If it was great as you say, then people would have no idea it was going on would they not? I’d say its a pretty shit conspiracy myself bud ;).

       
      • Hi,

        > How is it fair that should i want to vote for say the green party, if their is no party member in my local area, then i am not ? allowed to vote for the green party as a whole?<

        I'm afraid that is democracy in action – a matter between you the Green Party who for some reason didn't want to field a candidate. You can't blame that on the Global Conspiracy – perhaps they didn't have a volunteer? did you ask them? perhaps it could have been you.

        You can't all continually criticise (and advocate by-passing UK democratic processes) just because the rest of the population don't vote the same way you do. I'm not really "with" your Occupy agenda or strategy but I recognise the issues behind it. I'm an ordinary voter and I'm waiting to be convinced by you and at the moment it looks a lot like self-indulgent Group-Think.

        One thing we do agree on is that the Bankers have gotten away with it somehow and the rest of us are paying for it, I also have concerns about the stateless super-rich (pls read Robert Peston's book "Who governs Britain" if you want a real fright) and their heirs. (Re)-inventing Parliamentary Democracy 2.0 is a monumental task; I don't think it needs re-inventing anyway – just needs enough people to stop complaining about it and stand for election themselves. See the RESPECT party for example, its possible to get elected with an assertive agenda if you make your case.

        If you put up someone with ideas and an agenda I agree with I'll vote for you. At the moment though, I'll probably vote Conservative and hold them to the rhetoric on the Big Society as that sounds more radical and achievable than anything I see here. Meanwhile, I'll go to work and I'll pay my share of tax – if you guys win an election and put up the taxes then I'll pay those too. That's democracy.

         
    • >The thing is, you are all talking about “them” and
      >“the rich” and all assusming its all some huge conspiracy.
      Many would say it’s exactly that, eg Bilderberg, the CFR and many more.

      >…so you have no choice but to resort to violence or start a new >political party, or infiltrate an existing one somehow.
      Or simply peacefully occupy spaces, from my incessant reading of the OWS site, many are of the view that the main thrust of the movement is simply to grow, occupying more and more of the cities that were built by their sweat but to increasing portions of which they are forbidden. When those of the 99% that stand in lines wearing riot gear start seeing redundancies and pension cuts, open their eyes and begin coming out into the light, whom will there be do commit violence against ?

      I for one can’t see the average squaddie beating civvies with truncheons and whacking them with the pointed sides of shields, I simply don’t believe the army would do the ‘good work’ the police are doing in this respect.

      It’s just the conceptual (well, and real) police lines that need to break, then the answer to the eternal question ‘whose streets ?’ will be clear to all, the 99% will unite and we can move on to building a new society where the 1% have the same rights and responsibilities as the rest of us and the mechanisms that they previously used to raise themselves above us have been dismantled.

       
    • sorry -but i just can’t say enough how dispicable the above post is. Occupy IS a global movement and you are right that some solutions need to be global, but how does anybody acheive anything anywhere anytime if we keep hearing these kind of lines: ‘….and in any case you won’t be able to ban it, it will just go more discrete and disappear where you’ll never see it happening., ‘ On the one hand Occupy is dismissed for having no solutions, on the other it is undermined when solutions are offered but aren’t instantaneously fool proof.

       
  12. These protests are making a difference so fuck off!! just cos you sit there happy not feeling the poverty or abuse that others do doesn’t mean you can put it down. nothing stopping you having a go yourself. there are no rules to being a protester.

     
    • >These protests are making a difference so fuck off!!
      Again, somebody raises some points that ‘jim’ doesn’t agree with and gets abuse in return. I don’t know whether jim is in any way representing occupylsx but if so, somebody with the ability to disagree reasonably might be a better option, for the sake of the movement as a whole.

      >nothing stopping you having a go yourself.
      And indeed, nothing to indicate that the poster isn’t making a huge contribution in their life or hasn’t been for rather longer than the occupy movement has been around.

      >there are no rules to being a protester.
      No, but there are effective protests and protests that the media can simply paint as a roaming bunch of funsters having a larf. I, and others appear to be suggesting tht the former is more likely to garner far more support from middle England than the latter, and that’s where the ‘target market’ of the movement mainly reside.

      For a lot of people, this potentially epochal period has been a long time coming and needs to be used to the maximum effect. It needs to be done smartly and in a media-savvy way (sadly, but the mainstream media is the way the message will get to the other 98% of the 99% that are thus far unaware of the invisible bars that surround them) and make the most of it because if this one breaks down; the powers that be will use the aftermath to redouble their efforts at quelling civil disobedience and the next time somebody tries a zombie run, they’ll get the water cannon and a few months internment in a shadowy facility somewhere around porton down.

      This has to work, let’s leave the usual internet forum fare of ‘f*** you, you ****’ behind, we are all the 99% here, we’re on the same side !!!
      Reply ↓

       
      • ‘Jim’
        Are you in the 1% or being paid by the 1% just to sabotage from supposedly within the movement ?
        You are doing a major dis-service to the GOOD people of ‘occupy’ by hurling insults at anyone with an opinion. This does not help the movement whatsoever, quite the opposite.

        Can anyone else vouch for ‘Jim’ being genuine ? If so
        Please please ask him to calm himself, there are a lot of sensible people out there being put off by such commentary. To get things changed we not only need people to be active we also need some sensible people to sort the detail of change !

         
    • Who exactly is this “Jim” character ? Appears to be extremely tense, or perhaps a plant by the forces of evil, briefed to give the protest a bad reputation.
      There again he might be the true face of professional activists who seem to be playing an increasingly bigger role in the demo.
      Suggest “Jim” identify himself & the “party” who employs him ???

       
  13. Jim,
    Please stop you really are a fool – either say something clever and informed or just say nothing, maybe you should have stuck in at school and you could have a real job like the rest of us……

     
    • @Fat cat

      MORE useless insults !! Is this your attempt at gaining some sort of ‘fat cat’ higher ground ?

      I ‘stuck in at school’ but currently do not have one of those ‘real jobs’ you refer to.
      And before you stereotype me with insults, think to yourself, do I really know this persons situation ?

       
  14. HOLD UP I’m not saying anything bad about the movement. I was there for the first weekend and camped out two nights.

    I was having a go at the guy for saying the zombie thing was rubbish or ill thought out. I salute all you zombies!

     
  15. is there two jims in here. I’m the good one with a little j

     
    • You could be right, I was a little confused at you replying to one of your own comments !

      Up to you Jim/jim to track back I think, and make some changes to your profile.

       
      • Will the Zombie run be featuring on livestream?

         
    • That would explain a lot, so is there a Doctor Jim and Mr jim – like Jekyll and Hyde ? 🙂

       
  16. The Church authorities have more important things than airy-fairy discussions over morality and social conscience to consider. It was losing more than £100,000 because of these protests for Heaven’s sake. Have a heart guys.

    http://tompride.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/bishop-tells-protesters-church-no-place-for-moral-crusades/

     
    • The Dean of St Paul’s has just resigned. It does seem that the protest has managed to rock one institution in the City – it is just unfortunate that it is not one of those being targetted!

       
  17. If you think the camp should move away from St Pauls the simple answer is to go to the general assembly and vote for it, right? That’s how you get things done down there. Personally, I feel the church and the protesters should be on the same side against the stock exchange.

     
  18. We need to all sing from the same hym sheet.
    Please please, please educate yourselves on the ROOT of all our problems.
    The root can be explained eloquently here: http://www.moneyexplained.net/?page_id=236
    Please watch the documentaries and then visit the Monetary Reform page on that site for REAL SOLUTIONS THAT WILL DESTROY THE VERY ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.
    Everything else is just a symptom of the root problem.
    And the root problem is this: Private Central Banks, – The Bank of England, the Federal Reserve have the power to create currency out of thin air, and charge interest on it.
    The Power to create a nations currency must return to the Government, and the people and its quantity must be carefully controlled.
    Please, please watch the videos on the page above so that we can all understand the crux of the issue, the very root of it, to ROOT IT OUT!
    If you do not educate yourself on the subject by spending a few hours watching the documentaries on it, then what hope do we have to come to a common consensus and a solution to the problem.

     

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