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#OccupyLSX – Statement of solidarity with the residents of Dale Farm

 

The Occupy London Stock Exchange general assembly stands in solidarity with the residents of Dale Farm as they are unjustly removed from their own homes.

We condemn the horrible and disproportionate violence they are receiving from the police and bailiffs.

 

123 Responses to “#OccupyLSX – Statement of solidarity with the residents of Dale Farm”

  1. Why? Since when did breaking planning laws have anything to do with your stated aims.

    I thought you wanted fairness and equality, how is it fair that they should be able to build without proper permission but everyone else can’t?

    And does this mean you’re also in favour of the removal of laws protecting green belt land?

     
    • Wow, so much hate and knee jerk reaction on here!… Ok you guys say you all want to stick by the law yeah? The same laws that allow 98 of the ftse100 to pay no tax then? The same laws that now allow war criminals to enter into britain unchallenged? The same laws that would see you locked up for growing a plant?…. I ask why defend the laws of a corrupt unjust system? I mean most of the laws we want re-written anyway, don’t we?… Now baring that in mind why don’t we look at this from a common sense point of view! The place was a scrap yard! And after the homes are destroyed it will be a scrap yard again, though ofcourse half the homes are ‘legal’ and can stay! They’ve been there for 10 years! People always go on about green belt land etc etc, not acknowledging that green belt is just an imaginary line! Also that this particular ‘green belt’ was infact GREY CONCRETE!… I can’t believe people are crying and threatening to leave the movement because some other people support the travellers! You would think the travellers raped your families!… Ok now to all the people shouting about the law! How about the way the police gained entry? Via smashing a totally legal sites wall! I don’t see you guys crying about that! Criminal damage and trespass is apparently fine! It seems to me that most have bought into the propaganda! Now listen, these people have been there ten years! I don’t see in that time everyone moving onto green belt! I’m shocked at the lack of humility!

       
      • I bet you people believe it’s possible to be an ‘illegal immigrant’ too don’t you! Lol… You believe that just by traveling the earth you are illegal!… What a joke! I thought people were beginning to wake up and realise that all these systems of control are here to oppress us!!! Now say they have started building on a public park next to a playground or something, i might see where you lot are coming from, but a scrap yard? A scrap yard that technically happens to rest on so called green belt!… Wow! Did you guys ask permission to move onto st pauls cathedral? I know you didn’t cos i was there day one!… Did you guys know that people call for YOUR violent eviction too? Even the press are making it seem like you’re an annoyance, and that the dean has asked you all to think about leaving!… Yet you’ll all still blindly turn to the press for your 15 minutes of fame!!! Even people dealing with the criminal bbc! You know the guys that earn money via threats and intimidation, basically a protection rackett! Oh but wait, it’s ‘legal’ right? Riiiight! I even had some guy tell me that the bbc provides a service! I dare say it does, but it’s not for you or i! And even if it was you should get a choice as to whether you want the service or not!!!…. Did you guys know the day before the londen occupation the bbc ran articles about how much you lot would cost the tax payers?? Yeah they provide a service alright!… People over profit! REMEMBER! PEOPLE!

         
        • Wow, Barry… Did you even TAKE your medication today?

           
          • Was that actually supposed to be some sort of reply?

             
          • “The same laws that allow 98 of the ftse100 to pay no tax then?”

            You are an absolute moron if you think that is the case. Their overall tax rate is still between 20 and 30%! They provide MOST of the jobs in this country. Go to Cuba if you don’t like it you stupid Emo hippy.

             
    • Great posting Barry, I do feel sad for the uninformed, ignorant, cold hearted and bigoted. I thank mother earth for people like you. All the best Brian. I am one of the 99%

       
      • No mr capitalist! You are the moron! I read a few articles just the other day that laid it all out! There was some kind of review and yeah 98 of them pay no tax! Some of those 98 corporations have thousands of companies!

        I’m not talking about job creation, i’m talking about TAX EVASION!… Even jobs creation is a debatable one!
        I guess the government is talking about closing down tax havens for no reason! Capitalism is a joke mate! If people have money they buy a clever accountant to pay as little tax as they can! This my friend is a fact!

         
        • If you have an iPhone, or indeed any kind of smartphone, you are a capitalist. You signed up. You paid your membership fee.

          If you feel bad about the unfairness of the world then that’s great. I feel bad about it too. But the world isn’t fair. Life’s not fair. Other people are not fair. What you and most of the ‘anti-capitalist’ crew seem to want is to introduce (through sit-ins? Through violent revolution? Through the interweb?) a New World Order in which ‘fairness’ is imposed. I’m not sure how aware you are of history but this has already been tried – many, many times. Each time the result has been the same: dictatorship, tyranny, bloodshed. Look at Stalin, look at Mao; the combined death toll of their regimes dwarfs that of Hitler’s (and whereas Hitler was actively engaged in a genocide. Stalin and Mao’s murders were the result of an attempt to impose a new economic system).

           
      • No problem brian, i couldn’t believe some of the comment’s on here… I feel ashamed for them! Still full support for anyone still out there, i’ll come back to join you all as soon as i can.

         
  2. Bad move. Let’s not conflate issues – you are alienating the people that agree with OWS but disagree with building on green field sites without permission.

    We all disagree with disproportionate police brutality – but the issue of Dale Farm itself is divisive. Don’t adopt those divisions.

    Wise up and be more strategic. Stay focussed.

     
    • Indeed! Focus has definitely been missing at Occupy LSX!

       
  3. Is this in agreement through a General Assembly or from a personal opinion of the website guys?

     
    • This statement came from the GA today

       
      • I’ve been assisting onsite at olsx most of the week since Saturday and I’m reconsidering my position after this statement. I stand against any violence used against anybody for any reason but to blur the message from something I 100% agreed (which was my reason to make it my first ever physical protest) to solidarity with a separate cause gives me cause to consider dropping out. I don’t feel comfortable that the statements agreed upon on Saturday by a few thousand people can be tarnished by the decision of around 10% of that original number and bring a change in direction.

         
        • Has camp been infiltrated?

           
        • I also agree with David’s statement – this was not our fight. This is going to loose a lot of support, from where it’s needed the most – the general public. Reconsidering my position too…

           
          • Yep.

             
          • I agree – I agree with the message behind the original OWS WW movement but not any of the more extreme anarchist sentiments that seem to be surfacing…

             
        • I absolutely agree here. i’ve been at Occupy LSX from the beginning, the initial statement was carefully put together after several debates, mini-assemblies and the larger ones, over the course of Saturday and the Sunday with over a 1000 people involved. This sudden addition from today’s ‘GA’ is a shambles and totally changes the tone of what is happening. Since Monday I have been seeing the movement in London deteriorating, losing focus, and now I seriously need to reconsider my support, or push to shift what is happening at Occupy LSX.

           
      • Well you’ve lost a lot of support because of this, mine included. The original aims had wide spread and majority support, your latest statement will lose that majority and will polarise support against you.
        Such a shame.

         
  4. Planning ‘statues’ are not laws. You obey statutes by choice. ‘by consent of the governed’. It is possible to build something without a ‘piece of paper’. I am at a lost to see how the other residents’ were harmed by a bit of low rise concrete

     
    • “You obey statutes by choice”

      No you don’t your freeman friends have lied to you.

       
    • Clearly your ill advised on the law.
      Let me be clear, the planning Statutory Instruments have the same legal weight as all other statutory instruments. Rape, assault, burglary, theft are all covered by Statutory Instruments.

      I suggest someone wearing rose tinted glassed told you this little lie!

       
  5. I’d also like to know if this was agreed upon at the GA? The public are affected by the farm negatively as well, think it would be wiser to disagree with the brutality, rather than take sides on the issue. I do not agree with every flouting of authority, even if it hurts others.

     
    • Sorry, didn’t see the reply about the GA, this is quite disturbing. Do all the people who voted know the whole issue?

       
  6. Bad decision I think. I have been coming down to help out over the past few days and stayed 2 nights (unfortunately I cant stay more because of work). Decisions like this stand to alienate a huge amount of people who might otherwise be sympathetic (including myself), and it has nothing to do with the main grievances of people who have been inspired by the occupy movement.

    I think the we need to consider whether we want to be making these kind of statements or whether we want to focus on tapping into the gut feelings that people are having against the banks/governments

     
    • I am afraid this has alienated me and my friends. We are farmers, downtrodden, but still law abiding. Please re-think this one.

       
  7. I agree with others here. You’re alienating a huge chunk of your supporters. This is exactly the kind of affiliation that will undermine the protest. Make it about the issues. Don’t get caught up in everything.. it’ll just end up as yet another pointless parade of “we want to less bad things for ourselves”.

    Bad move, indeed.

     
  8. Bad decision, this is confusing the issue. Lets solve one problem at a time, ows and olsx are not platforms for any and all issues to be protested

     
  9. Stick to the original plan, keep it simple and effective, the more issues you bring in, the more diverse the opinions and it waters down the issues.

    Independently regulate bankers, stop gross proffits of the big corporations, share the wealth, stop the wars, stop politicians being in bed with the corporations and bankers. Make them all (including the military) accountable to us! the people! Lets have true democracy where we are all informed by an honest media, not a government propaganda machine. Let us make informed decisions for the good of us all on the planet.

    We can talk about the details later, lets make a noise and get heard first!

    Lets the good people stand together against these mass murdering, thieving liars. Lets go for it! United we are strong! Keep it simple keep united!

     
    • Yes!! At last!! Stop all bad things now!!

       
  10. Here’s a link to a vote on this subject

     
  11. It’s all connected init. Police violence at Dale Farm, police violence at the first day of the London Occupy camp. Police violence when they come to evict St Pauls Camp when they’ve had enough of it. Can’t see that the aims of the camp (as wide as they are) exclude sending a message of support to people who are subject to a violent forced eviction regardless of legal technicalities.

    The problems of the world are structural to the core and not just a choice of reforms, finding nice politicians, nice regulators of bankers, nice philanthropic politics for the poor. Capitalism is the problem.

    The point is neither to fetishise violence or non-violence. It’s useless to force resistance into false oppositions. Capitalism is violence. Profit and exploitation is violence whether it’s minimum wage jobs and massive rents in London or mineral miners in the Global South dying on the job. And yes all that violence is backed up by law. So where does that leave anyone who opposes these systems? The State will always hold the monopoly on violence. They will always be more violent in the everyday than we can ever be.

    Some times you just have to fight back but resistance and self-defence has to be strategic. There’s no point thinking fighting the cops is any more radical than setting up a tent occupation where dialogues are created. Diversity of tactics is more healthy than condemnations. It’s a mixed and diverse movement so far. No one should be allowed to dominate which is sometimes a problem of the General Assembly form.

    Keep the faith everyone, it’s early days.

     
    • Profit made the world you live in – both the good and bad aspects of it. Grow the fuck up.

       
      • actually, workers made the world you, I, we live in. Where do you think profit came from? – It was robbed from workers by paying them less than the value produced by their labour, that’s where – twat.

         
        • What is a worker? Was Steve Jobs a worker? Was John Lennon a worker? Is Wayne Rooney a worker? What is the value of each of those individuals’ labour? Is the financial compensation they’ve received commensurate with the amount of work they’ve actually done? If I found and run a small business, should I get paid the same or less than the people who work for me? Do I owe them a living? What is ‘work’, anyway?

           
  12. @Old Fart – So you should stand against police violence, not declare unanimous support for Dale Farm.

    I have visited St Paul’s over the weekend, and supported your original goals, but I cannot defend Dale Farm. I live just down the road from it and witness first hand the mess and disruption they cause. If anyone else had flouted the laws as they have, their house would have been flattened years ago. They know exactly what they are doing. They flout the law at every opportunity, and then try to bend the law to defend themselves.

    I for one will not miss a single one of them.

     
    • Very nicely said, you are exactly the sort of person that the country needs to notice at this time, because so many are getting the wrong idea. I live near to two traveller communities, but we are fortunate enough that they are nice enough people and are considerate. Not all of the communities we have had to deal with over the days have been as nice or co-operative. I’ve seen firsthand a small yet highly disruptive community setting up and dumping in a car park by a local primary school, and that wasn’t exactly a good experience. If we’re going to protest for equality and fairness, people squatting or occupying land illegally should be treated as such too.

       
  13. No reply from: occupy admin?

    What is the point of splitting ourselves between issues and as part of the 99% why is there not just one website with the next steps listed and ready to be voted on… You know one united democracy from all occupy movments global.

    The USA has occupytogether so form one for europe and merge the two?

     
    • Perhaps even better, get together with a bunch of other groups who are radically opposed to what you are doing, and THEN have a vote? Might that not have greater legitimacy? Oh wait, isn’t that what we’ve got already?

       
  14. Well, there goes my first attempt at getting involved with some kind of protest. Came to the site to find out how to get involved and saw this “statement of solidarity”. Confirms everything I feared about this all being some left-wing studenty bullshit where everyone gets carried away by the fact they’re being rebellious and staying in tents and feels inspired to “stick it to the man” at every opportunity.

    In addition it sounds like the movement has been successfully infiltrated already, so why waste my time.

    I really hope some people involved in running OccupyLSX will take a closer look and listen at OccupyWS, and stop moving in this bullshit direction that will have the whole issue lose public support, in turn allowing the media to completely sideline the movement.

    Here’s a great debate with 2 people involved in OWS who set out the issues and agenda perfectly:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO9oMV-RXRU&feature=channel_video_title

    STICK TO THE ISSUE!

    And good luck, ‘cos I won’t be there until there’s some demonstrated credibility.

     
  15. I can’t believe so many comments here are against even issuing a STATEMENT in support of Dale Farm. Ideally it would have been good for a posse of you to come down in person.

    Can’t you see the connection between their struggle and yours? Are you so naive and inexperienced to think that clinging to some illusionary idea of mainstream opinion will win you the world you want to see?

    If you become enough of a threat to the powerful that the media talks shit about OccupyLSX in order to justify brutally evicting you, would you like other campaigns to say “Not our fight, we might lose mainstream support” or would you want them to STAND WITH YOU?

    First they came for the Travellers, and I didn’t speak up because it “wasn’t my fight”,
    Then they came for the radicals, and I didn’t speak up because it “would alienate public opinion”,
    Then they came for me, and nobody with any backbone was left to speak up for me…

    I am really angry that so many of you are trying to distance yourselves from Dale Farm, a place where so many brave people have been traumatised, arrested or even hospitalised today for trying to defend a COMMUNITY which has NOWHERE ELSE TO GO. 80-90 families being made HOMELESS.

    If you look into it and ignore the misinformation and bigotry, you’ll find this is an eviction motivated by racism, not planning law.

    “I witness first hand the mess and disruption they cause…”

    Take your stereotypes elsewhere you bigot. Have you ever met any of the residents, talked to them as equal human beings? I have, and they are warm lovely people (not everyone’s perfect, they’re not saints, but generally).

    “If anyone else had flouted the laws as they have, their house would have been flattened years ago.”

    Bullshit. The guy living next door DID flout planning laws and got away with it.
    http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/2011/09/22/new-documents-reveal-basildon-council%e2%80%99s-planning-double-standards/

    Meanwhile Basildon Council approve developments on greenbelt whenever there’s a profit to be made:
    http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/basildon-councils-planning-permission-double-standards-exposed/

    …but the same Council refused an offer of FREE LAND from the Homes and Community Agency to resettle the community, which would have resolved the dispute. They prefer to spend £22m taxpayers money on destroying a community.

    This is not impartial execution of an objective law. It is the culmination of a systemic prejudice against Travellers. It is a stubborn war of attrition with the aim of making Travellers somehow disappear. There’s a word for that. Ethnic cleansing.

    Finally, as a counterbalance to the commenter claiming to be from the area, here’s a video of some folks giving their opinion in Basildon town centre:
    http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/basildon-speaks-out/

     
    • What utter nonsense your spouting.

      The document your showing are a snippet of the whole truth.
      Yes the neighbour did flout the planning rules – however, do your research, this was then corrected.

      Likewise, if you show just a single court victory early on for the travellers on Dale Farm, you could say that they had received the permissions – yet that would also be just a snippet.

      The whole Dale Farm issue is devisive, Yes the site was previously used by the council for storage of vehicles, Yes hardstanding was put down, however the owner of the site was also hit by the council with enforecement notices for breach of planning on the ‘Green Belt’ area prior to him selling it to the travellers.

      BUT, the mindless idiots who ‘racked up to have a bit of a battle with the feds’ to quote one of them do nothing what so ever to help corral support for the traveller, not one inch. Infact quite the opposite.

      It is the opinion of Middle England to quote all the political parties that counts – have them on side and you CAN make changes – go down the minority route and your classed as just left wing student type yobs.

       
      • As I understand it, he built without planning permission, the council issued enforcement notices, but never actually enforced them, and then later changed their minds and gave him planning permission.

        You could call that change of mind “correcting” the issue.

        I don’t. I see it as double-standards to make a U-turn like that for the sake of one guy occupying a whole patch of actually-green greenbelt by himself, while refusing to allow a whole community living on a similar size piece of actually-concrete technically-greenbelt to stay.

        The point is, Travellers have a VERY different experience of the planning system to non-Travellers, one that I would argue amounts to systemic discrimination.

        Why should Travellers abandon their community, their way of life, taking their families into situations of homelessness or waiting lists for council housing (an alien environment culturally), just to abide by a planning system that is being used by bigotted local Councillors to try and crush them?

        If you had to choose:
        1. Make you and your family homeless.
        2. Abandon your culture and isolate yourself from your community by going into council housing.
        3. Break planning law.
        …what would you do?

        Please reflect on this, and even better chat (and listen!) to some actual Travellers, before replying with more hateful nonsense. Cheers…

         
  16. Not really a wise move to be taking a stance on the Dale Farm incident here, you’ve lost a lot of support. Another anon mentioned alienation, I can’t really say anything more on that. Quite frankly the Dale community at least partially were there illegally, and they have been refusing to move on. Whilst the police action is somewhat heavy-handed, they’re just doing their job, which is to deal with those that are violating laws. One thing the country generally needs is police that have the authority and power to deal with people breaking laws whilst still being more considerate and less forceful when confronting nonviolent individuals, and to respond appropriately, swiftly and effectively in cases of violence.

     
    • I thought I’d also add to this- people having been throwing rocks and the likes at police. That’s not what you’d call being smart at all.

       
  17. Quote…

    Brian: Excuse me, are you the Judean People’s Front?
    Reg: Fuck off! We’re the People’s Front of Judea!

    …End quote.

     
  18. Latest vid from St Pauls!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

     
  19. Yes please stay away from Dale Farm.

    This is a big mistake and is not linked at all with your cause.

    Great way to lose credibility.

     
  20. Bad move bad move folks. When politicians make a bad decision the last thing they will do is admit they were wrong. I hope this wont be the same.
    I thought he protest was about:
    Separating the corporations from politics and media?
    Ending crazy military spending and unjust wars?
    To stop the raping our land for profit.?
    Changing the economic system to be be more fair to the 99%?
    No?

    I’m not sure this general assembly is working. I was there a few nights ago. It needs to become more focused, MUCH more focused.
    Best of luck and I hope ye can have a look at your statement about Dale farm and amend if need be. It is a totally seperate issue guys.

     
  21. Dale Farm has nothing to do with Occupylsx.

    I am the 99 percent…….. and I’m OUT!!!

    Peter.

     
  22. Bye, Bye chaps, Such a good start but you’ve turned into an unfocussed bunch who will clearly not last another week. Maybe you should consider the possibility that you have undercover cops in there……..

     
  23. You/we (I don’t know which any more) have handed a stick to the right-wing press to beat you/us with. Don’t think there won’t be criticism from the other parts of the media, either. This is a battle for hearts and minds! Please focus on that.

    I’ve just voted in the Google Moderator idea previously mentioned: http://goo.gl/mod/BWOh “A statement was made via 19 October General Assembly and published to the official website stating Occupy London ‘stand in solidarity with Dale Farm residents’. Is this something you agree with?”. I suggest other people vote there too.

     
  24. Bad move. I’ll add my voice to those who have already expressed their concerns. Stand against the brutality by all means, but the right to illegally build on greenbelt and corporate greed are words apart. Unless this position is reconsidered, I’m out.

     
  25. Bad Idea Bad Idea Bad Idea … Unless you plan to invide the dale farm residents to set up a camp outside canary wharf .

    It seems that the GA is populated by tactically stupid people. ….i.e. UCL/LSE students, Socialist worker drones, Anonymous nerds and vegan do gooders …. rather than anyone who can run a campaign or who represents the ordinary person.

    Dale Farm, bad planning laws and discrimination against the travelling community – ok bad things maybe personally people want to do something about this. But nothing to do with what this protest is supposed to be about. … Set up a splinter group e.g. occupy Basildon District Council or something but don’t make statements about irrelevant issues in the name of OWS.

    Lost focus … Lost support …. fade into irrelevance

     
  26. I am going to make a suggestion for this to be re-voted at the 7pm General Assembly. At the end of the day this is what real democracy looks like – and I still am 100% behind the movement, prior to this statement. I would suggest that everyone who does not believe in this statement is down at the GA to participate in vote.

     
    • Instead, make another proposal talking in general terms about human rights and nullifying last nights’s vote. It’ll look marginally less ridiculous…

       
  27. Bad move. You must stay focused on the aims of the Occupy movement and not take on other slightly related causes.

     
  28. I FULLY SUPPORT DALE FARM RESIDENTS BUT I THINK CONFLATING THESE TWO ISSUES IS A MASSIVE FUCK-UP that will put many people off.

    If you want to build a mass movement of ordinary people, you have to accept that sometimes they won’t agree with stuff. Yes, they are idiots, who clearly know fuck all about the persecution travellers have faced, but for gods sake get rid! it makes it so much easier to dismiss us all as ‘professional protestors’ and crusty student hippies etc. It should be blatantly obvious that Dale Farm is part of the 99%. Also, rather than bland solidarity, why not either join them, or better invite them to occupy LSX too, that would be far more fun!

     
    • Uh, you talk about persecution, yet you’re still overlooking the illegality. Anyone else occupying property illegally would have been dealt with a very long time before, you can’t say they didn’t have it coming. We’re not idiots, we’re just the law-abiding majority.

       
      • “Anyone else occupying property illegally would have been dealt with a very long time before…”

        Nonsense. For example, corporations and other powerful interests get away with building illegally and then obtaining retrospective planning permission all the time. I’ve even listed specific cases of double standards in Basildon itself above.

        “We’re not idiots, we’re just the law-abiding majority.”

        You’re idiots if you think it’s possible to stop “corporate greed” while remaining law-abiding.

        That’s probably a bit too harsh. Not idiots so much as people who’ve had sheltered/privileged and/or obedient lives so far. Still, everyone has to start somewhere.. in the meantime I guess the rest of us will have to try and be patient with you “law-abiding” folks and your nonsense.

        Laws are made by the powerful to defend the interests of the powerful. Where they overlap with basic human decency and morals (eg not killing/raping people) they obviously make sense, but other than that there is nothing to be proud of in being “law-abiding”. It just means you’ve foolishly played by the arbitrary rules your enemy set up for you.

         
  29. St Pauls have issued a statement asking ‘Is it time the camp moved on’

    Just as the GA decided to move on to issues not connected to it thus alienating the vast majority of the country, so to has St. Pauls mindset on OLSX moved on. Cause and effect my friends.

    To re-gain the initiative you really need to distance yourselves from Dale Farm to at least try and capture some impetus back. The initial aims and peaceful protest was accepted, understood and supported by the majority of the country, yet in one single stupid ill thought out statement, you’ve reduced your support to a minority.

     
  30. you just lost support from 50 people i know, your goal should be MORALITY not anarchy, liberalism etc. You supporting the travellers are negating the will of the law abiding citizens, the police, the local community etc your choice is based on your own will and not the will of all involved.

     
  31. You are the 0.00001%

    Call us back when you get a leader, a pro, who can beat David Cameron in a debate on any policy.

    /quit

     
  32. It is a natural move, day after day we will have to decide about the way our protest goes and we all get informed and educated in the way. Some people will leave because it’s against their principles to stand against the law or because it’s too much to support the fight that some brave people are putting up against the dirty tactics of police and media, then better be less people but clear who is the enemy that we fight.

     
    • Climbing up scaffolding towers, throwing things at police and chaining themselves to gates to delay everything and cost more money isn’t dirty tactics then?

       
    • Oh please… Dirty Tactics of the police & media???

      I haven’t seen the Police or Media ever throwing containers full of Urine at any demonstrator, nor have I seen them throwing bricks, metal poles, wooden stakes, petrol bombs, paint, acid etc.

      What do you expect them to do – arrive in a nice single file line and ask those protestors throwing the above listed items at them to; Politely to move aside please as they are in breach of the law?

      For once I fully supported the police action, it was done quickly and efficiently.

       
      • Sounds like you weren’t there to witness the “police action”, and got your version of it from the mainstream media. Petrol bombs? Acid? Utter bullshit.

        Or maybe you’re one of those people who generally believes that violence is valid if it’s the police doing it and despicable if it’s anyone else.

        Here’s a thought for you: the resulting police injuries, according to a spokeperson, were “a few minor cuts and bruises”. On the side of the Travellers and activists, however, several people were HOSPITALISED, including one with a spinal injury, and including several who were beaten up and/or pressure pointed while non-violently locked on to stuff.

        What does that tell you about the “police action”?

         
  33. Sorry if all the frustrated lib dems on here are unhappy with the OLSX decision on the Dale Farm issue, all for human rights but unfortunately not when its those ‘pikeys’

    I suppose you feel they shouldn’t have endorsed the Sparks protest in London, either, do you even know about it?.

     
    • it is simply about maintaining the focus (i.e. the banks, the bailout, democracy)

      it is ‘Occupy LSX’, not ‘Occupy London to-cure-every-ill’

       
      • Democracy is such a fine and outstandingly meaningless concept when it comes knocking at your door.

         
        • I really dont understand this. Dale Farm is not a protest it is just a nasty little squabble between a group of self interested exclusionists and an intransigent local authority. Do you really think that their aims and objectives have anything in common with the 99 percent cos i dont!!!!

           
          • Intransigent local authority? How so exactly? They are duty bound to prevent a breach of their own planning regulations. How else could they continue to oversee a legally constituted system and prevent anybody buiding anything they like anywhere. If the planning laws are wrong say so but its not the Council’s fault.

             
  34. what has dale farm got to do with human rights for gods sake!!!!!!

     
  35. This is a stupid decision – the Dale Farm issue is complex, divisive, and one that will alienate many people.

    This is exactly what you shouldn’t be doing if you want to attract moderates, apoliticals and other disgruntleds who might otherwise temporarily ally with you on certain issues.

     
  36. Guys, please stick to the issues at hand. We want a more fair and just society, where everyone treats each other equally. The travellers getting kicked out of Dale Farm isn’t our fight. Really think you should reconsider this.

    As it happens, I’m completely against anyone being removed from their homes for whatever reason, and frankly the fact that people are being made homeless while the 1% have whole estates stood empty is an absolute JOKE, but not everyone shares this view! We’re the 99%… not the 80 odd percent who’d probably support this cause.

     
  37. people on here who are criticising the decision to support Dale Farm. How on Earth do you think we can build a movement for social justice if we stand by in silence while a persecuted ethnic minority are evicted from their homes and made homeless by a local council pandering to racism and prejudice.?

     
    • you need to look more closly at what went on in the past at dale farm and ask your self if I set up camp illegally in your garden how would you feel then. as i said before Dale farm has nothing to do with this issue and if you (im not part of this if it is going down this road) allign yourselves with every monority lost cause no one will want to support you. Think carefully before making these kind of kneejerk statements.

       
  38. Dear OccupyLSX,
    Stick to what you know. Dale Farm is a murky issue and could cost you dear.

     
    • “Stick to what you know”

      Might as well close shop now then 🙂

       
  39. The Dale Farm issue is one that should be kept out of Occupy LSX. It has nothing to do with what the movement stands for. We all want to be taken seriously, and taking an anarchistic standpoint on such a matter will not help in that respect. It is hypocritical to have a movement based on the rightful outrage due to the law-breaking of bankers, whilst at the same time supporting the people who stayed at Dale Farm illegally.

     
  40. I am afraid this has alienated me and my friends. We are farmers, downtrodden, but still law abiding. Please re-think this one.

    Lets deal with the broader issues first rather than getting sidetracked by supporting murky situations.

     
  41. I support the need to reinvestigate 911. I believe the same elites in the media and state that have lied and covered up the recent crimes of the bankers have also lied to us about 9/11. Some people at occupy LSX will agree with me and some won’t.

    Do I expect Occupy LSX to suddenly jump on my bandwagon and lend me their support? No, because even though in my opinion the 2 issues are linked, that would be a tactic that is guaranteed to divide rather than unite us. So why is Dale Farm any different? Wise up

    Further, the financial crisis has been caused by some very powerful people and corporations behaving criminally. Clearly some of it is down to the incompetence of the minions in the banking world, but most of it is down to the criminality at the top. By supporting defiance of the law at Dale Farm, the case for upholding the law against the bankng criminals is weakened.

     
  42. Someone earlier asked…
    ” How on Earth do you think we can build a movement for social justice if we stand by in silence while a persecuted ethnic minority are evicted from their homes and made homeless by a local council pandering to racism and prejudice.?”

    I would suggest by focusing on what the majority of the population, what the “99%” currently see as “social justice”. Alas, whereas much of the population already see (or can be shown) the huge social injustice of the banking system/corporatist system, I dont believe much of the population can be persuaded easily on issues like Dale Farm, however wrong they may be.

    We NEED TO FOCUS on the issues which the majority can identify and agree with, that way we CAN build a movement large enough and sustainable enough to bring about social justice. THEN we can deal with issues like Dale Farm.

    Right now, having put that staement out we have seriously risked losing popular support and thus any chance of building a sustainable movement if we don’t remain focused on CORE issues that affect and are seen as important to the majority.

    Sadly, I now feel a movement which I was very excited about, that I thought could really be the one to forge changes, may well be setting off down a track of what the (lets face it fairly simple minded” public may see as confusing mixed muddledom. It will turn them off.

    I will watch to see how this develops and it may well see me leave and pursue other campaigning options. Probably futile but until anyone forms a mass movement they all are. PLEASE dont let this become another futile pursuit. It came so far so fast, dont throw it away.

     
  43. to win the hearts of the public we need to be seen as mainstream, like them, ordinary people.

    The public at large see anyone who supports Dale Farm / other issues of similar ilk as “those weirdy hippy lefty nutcase types, they are not like us darling, lets avoid them and just vote next time”

    Those people may well be narrow minded/ignorant/missing the point, BUT if we focus on what bothers them (the wider picture), then we get them on board, we engage them in the dialogue, we can educate/inform/awaken them and THEN deal with the details.

     
    • So you’re not an ordinary person, then? You sound as if you feel you have some sort of unique insight into things, a special capacity to discern the shape of the truth that simply eludes the less able, less fortunate, ‘ordinary’ folk.

      The awe-inspiringly patronising quality of your tone is what urges me to ask this question.

       
  44. Point 8 in the agreed statement:

    “We stand in solidarity with the global oppressed and we call for an end to the actions of our government and others in causing this oppression”

    It is very clear to me that the resident of Dale Farm are peoples being oppressed by the government.

    This statement was agreed by those at the General Assembly last night. All decisions made by the General Assembly are able to be changed and tweaked at any time. So, if you disagree, I think the appropraite response is not to withdraw your support, but to come along and engage in the debate. This is how we build a movement, a democracy, a society that LISTENS to each other. Rather then just threatening to leave when you hear something you don’t like.

     
    • Yes, fine words in point 8. They can apply to a million things all around the world, so are you going to have statements on each and every one of them?

      Point 9: “This is what democracy looks like. Come and join us!” Again, excellent words, perfectly capturing the spirit of the moment. But can’t you see that this latest statement is having exactly the opposite effect?

       
      • ‘All decisions made by the General Assembly are able to be changed and tweaked at any time.’

        Actually, just image that sentence in 10ft high letters on a poster, above the stern, moustachioed face of a middle-aged man…

         
    • ‘All decisions made by the General Assembly are able to be changed and tweaked at any time.’

      Like Newspeak!

       
    • Point 8 is so vaguely phrased you could be seen as supporting anyone who is “oppressed”… Like paedophile rings who are constantly hunted and persecuted by the police.

      See the problem?

      The residents of Dale farm deliberately broke the law 10 years ago, and have spent 10 years using every trick in the legal book to make their illegal activity legal. For once the local authority had a back bone and stuck with it.

      Yes, there is an element of NIMBY here, but justifiably so when you have lived near them, as I have. Would you like your farm equipment stolen, and then sold back to you complete with a threat of “If we have any comeback on this we know where you live and we’ll burn your f*****g house down with you and your family inside”?

       
  45. Yeah I don’t get the whole ‘I’m leaving’ thing – if you disagree then why not discuss it with others at the GA (or discuss it on here) …Anyone is free to argue against it at the meeting – it’s not as if this has just been posted up by a minority who aren’t supported by the rest of the group. Also I think it’s quite hard to get a clear picture of what certainly is a ‘murky’ situation @ Dale Farm from the media coverage of the issue- so what better way to talk about what’s really going on than face to face at the meeting with people who have been there/lived there/live in the local area? Come to the meeting – but have a bit of patience and stamina! It’s not supposed to be easy having real discussions and democracy…

     
  46. If I was at this meeting I would have Objected walked walked away. I missed the meeting but if my vote counts in the consensus please consider it. I believe this statement about Dale Farm muddies and weakens the purpose of the occupation and is a big mistake.

     
  47. This is a huge mistake, as plenty of people in the comments state. I was already in doubt about the potential success of our movement whenever I heard the word Dale Farm at an assembly. Now this statement solidifies my fears and makes me realise that since last weekend, Occupy LSX is taking a turn for the worst.

    What do i mean by that? Everyone at the camp seems to be living in their own world where they want to make their own rules in the hope that in some magical way the entire world will become like the one at the bottom of the Cathedral’s steps. What is being missed is a constant, steady, and analytical study of what the press and outside observers are saying and thinking about the movement and the process. By missing out on those observations, we are alienating ourselves and merely creating an alternative 99%.

    Since Monday, I have had friends laugh and tell me it’s all pointless. I thought: that’s fine, they don’t fully understand what I we’re doing just yet, and eventually will realise how what we’re standing for also affects them personally.

    I’ve read article after article about how there is no focus. I thought: no worries, it’s early days, we’re progressing and developing this.

    Been seeing post after post on blogs and this very website about how we’re nothing but a bunch of restless students who want to bring in some form of Socialism. And I thought… oh shit, this is taking a bad turn.

    And now I see this ‘official’ Dale Farm connection, and I’m thinking, ‘Fuck It, something’s gotta change in the OccupyLSX or I’m out, and so will everyone else who doesn’t support mass squatting’.

    You can now throw out any options of bringing in economic reform, defend the tax budgets for social services and welfare, defending the law and whatever else you were there for. This Dale Farm statement will overshadow everything else. Because when the 99% work fucking hard to pay their rent and feed their families, they’re not gonna have sympathy for those who don’t.

    I hope this will be brought up at Saturday’s GA (not during the week when the rest of us are at work) and seriously addressed.

     
  48. Of all the things to issue a statement on! You lost my support. Not because I am not supportive of Dale Farm but because choosing to issue a statement of support for this out of everything else going on in the world is totally out of touch. Jokers.

     
  49. Dale Farm is a case of people being evicted from buildings that should never have been built. Planning law exists for a reason, it’s the same law that prevents Tesco from just opening up wherever they feel like. It is a good thing.

    I had previously supported the Occupy London movement, believing that it was a movement to increase transparency and fairness in financial markets, and reduce the inequalities in reward between directors and employees.

    In short, I believed that Occupy London stood for the reform of the capitalist system so that it was socially acceptable to the majority, which at present it is not.

    If Occupy London seriously supports the removal of UK planning law (which the Conservative Party is already attempting on your behalf) then I’m afraid you do not have my support in any way shape or form, and you might as well fuck off back to 1967.

     
  50. Although i can understand the reasons for this statement and also empathise with the travellers and protesters who support them; I also believe this statement may be negative for the cause.
    Why? Because living near the downs I have known both travellers who are lovely and contribute to the society they benefit from (education & health service) BUT I have also know their relatives & friends, also travellers, who have moved on from their sites but left a real mess, avoid tax but benefit from the NHS amongst other things.

    On the other hand plenty of people who live in traditional houses avoid tax and are a public nuisance. So it is a tough one to call

     
    • but i do think this was a mistake for many of the reasons stated above. I would remove the statement. Those who believe this statement is a mistake now need to step up and refocus the movement.

       
  51. It strikes me that if you join a movement like this and then leave due to one statement of solidarity that you don’t agree with then maybe you jumped in to fast. The focus needs to be on what unites, not what divides. One statement of solidarity is just that – its not like a war has been embarked upon. Is it not better to accept that there are going to be statements, directions, policies that are not agreed on by all but the main thrust – the need for change is worked on by all.

     
    • The problem is that if you get a group of people together on an issue that they agree on, you should not then start introducing other issues and claiming that the movement also agrees on this secondary, largely unrelated issue.

      If you lose focus like that, a huge number of people (like myself) are going to turn around and say “actually, we don’t support the Dale Farm travellers” and we have no choice but to distance ourselves from you, because to stand with you means aligning ourselves with people who believe that they’re above planning law, like Tesco and mobile phone operators.

      It’s entirely possible that the fault is mine for believing that the focus of Occupy London was to push for greater transparency and equality within a better regulated, more equitable capitalist system. However, judging from the comments associated with this thread, I’m not alone in my disillusionment.

      If you want to stop the eviction of travellers from Dale Farm, you picked a strange place to camp….

       
  52. fair point

     
  53. Does the sudden flurry of minutes of meetings from two and three days ago posted on the front page mean OccupyLSX is trying to bury the Statement of Solidarity?

     
    • You cynic 😉

       
      • Oh come on, its absolutely obvious that it’s just a tactic to divert the focus away from a huge mistake. I bet someone’s going to mention the words ‘tech tent’ above all else as an argument.

         
    • Agreed – I liked the transparency from the minutes being posted. I hope they come back, along with the comments.

       
  54. Apparently police marksmen are now surrounding Dale Farm, and have opened fire three times.

    One won a goldfish, and the other two a teddy bear and an inflatable hammer.

     
  55. Only when the “WORLD” can “Wake-Up!” and start to understand that the whole World-Wide Financial Demise (and everything attached to it,) has been totally orchestrated by Zionist/Jewish Bankers will we ever be able to put an end to the beginning of this Parasitic “New World Order!” If WE do not Wake-Up; then We can only expect Total Control over Humanity. Think this is insane? Then read: http://wake-upbeforeitstoolate.com and understand just how far this deception and “hidden from the public” control goes

     
    • ‘Think this is insane?’

      No, you’re insane.

       
  56. I DO NOT SUPPORT CRIMINALITY OR IMMORALITY PERPETRATED BY THE DALE FARM PEOPLE!!!!

    YOU SIDE WITH CRIMINALS… GREAT.. YOU HAVE NOW LOST SUPPORT FROM ALL THE LAW ABIDING AND MORAL PEOPLE!!

     
    • I don’t share ‘windrush”s view (especially in all caps.. tst tst tst – however it’s exemplary of what happens when a movement loses focus. Please get back on focus, we support you – I’ll try to bring my kids on Sunday! 😀

       
  57. Guys I really support what you’re doing and the protest. I can’t support you because I can’t afford the train fare to London sadly. I agree that this stance confuses the cause of the protest. I am sympathetic to Traveller communities and having worked with them and can see the Dale Farm issue from all points of view. It was a no win situation in my opinion.
    But my point is that there will be disagreements. You’re bound to fall out. I’m sitting here in the Midlands reading your comments and feeling sad for you.
    Of course you don’t all agree – you’re human. So try not to take the bitchiness to heart and all of you whatever side of the argument try to stay focused on what’s happening now. The part you’re playing and the mission we have to have a better society. There has to be a better way. You are right to protest and you will have bad days.

     
  58. And please can I ask a question. Why have you put a comments thread under the press releases? Are you mad? Want to undermine your movement; then let the press see your back stabbing. Please remove these threads.

     
    • Whoaaaa! Censorship much?

       
  59. Is it illegal to grow plants in this country? Now I am worried. We have a lovely aspidistra indefensis majoris which is now over five ft tall (this is some four inches taller than my grandmother who tends it). What am I to do? She will be devastated to find out we must destroy it .Perhaps we can buy her a Ferbie or some other popular furry toy to replace it in her affections. Are they legal?

     
  60. OK. You’ve officially and unofficially blown it now! Anyone who thinks that the Dale Farm eviction should even be MENTIONED in connection with global unrest due to GLOBAL injustice has their head firmly up their bum. I was really, really hoping that the reactionary fringe would not once again dominate the discourse but this statement proves otherwise. It is important to differentiate between topics and not just be committed to being against the police in each and every situation (except of course when you may need them yourself – believe me, it can happen). You have now just alienated any intelligent political activist who is interested in the potential of the global nature of the various Occupy demos. Get some political sophistication, some awareness of global economics and geopolitics and you will see that these movements should get linked up quick, and start talking about the real issues: the imperative to force nations to enter into global monetary reform. The “protesters” at Dale Farm give a terrible name and image to the entire activist movement. I mean, do you want to be associated with someone like Misty Challis, posing with her crucifix against a caravan that they set on fire themselves? I sure don’t! Bu-bye. Sadly, this is now doomed to go the way of Climate Camp and others who’ve firmly lost the plot. Straight to the back page baby! x

     

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