Statement from OccupyLSX

 

We are disappointed to learn that that the management of St Paul’s have decided to close the Cathedral this afternoon, in their open letter regarding our peaceful occupation that aims to highlight and challenge the social and economic injustice in the UK and beyond.

Since the beginning of the occupation six days ago, OccupyLSX have tried hard to accommodate the Cathedral’s concerns in any way we can. Over the past 48 hours, we have completely re-organised the camp in response to feedback from the Fire Brigade and we have also accepted the presence of two large barriers to preserve access to the side door of the Cathedral.

Both of these measures were accepted by the General Assembly in order that the Cathedral’s normal operations should not be unduly impacted by our presence. This afternoon we have been told, in a telephone call, by the fire brigade, that they have not issued any new requirements above and beyond those already communicated directly to the camp. Therefore, there are no outstanding fire safety issues.

What outstanding issues there are appear to be concerned with, firstly, health and safety and, secondly, the Cathedral’s commercial concerns. We seek clarification from the Cathedral as to the precise nature of those health and safety concerns, so that we might address them directly. In the short space of time that we have been here, we have successfully liaised with the City authorities and outside bodies to coordinate recycling and sanitation.

As to the Cathedral’s commercial concerns, access to the restaurant has never been blocked by the encampment. The closure of the restaurant, by the Cathedral, has mystified us, especially as it came at the same time as we encouraged our people to use and support the restaurant. We would much prefer to eat there than in some of the nearby chains.

We believe the Cathedral is also concerned about their visitor numbers. We have endeavoured to ensure that our schedule does not conflict with the Cathedral’s, so that their normal operations are not impaired. Clearly, we have become another tourist attraction on the Cathedral’s doorstep – but, since we are not a commercial concern, we are struggling to understand how we have had any financial impact on the Cathedral’s revenues.

We also understand that some individuals were in the process of arranging for a contribution to be made to St Paul’s in recognition of their hospitality. It is a shame the Cathedral authorities have decided to take this action before those preparations came to fruition, as we expected them to in the next 12 hours.

Over the course of this week, we have done a huge amount to draw attention to the crisis of economic and political legitimacy experienced in the UK and mirrored in protests staged across the world. That awareness-raising exercise – and our attempts to provide a truly participatory and accountable forum in which to investigate ways forward – will continue.

 

Update – 4pm

We have been advised by Health and Safety Manager Rachel Sambal that the City of London’s Health and Safety Team have had no contact with St Paul’s Cathedral regarding health and safety issues at the site.

 

183 Responses to “Statement from OccupyLSX”

  1. show the world your balls, and stay

     
    • Yea, thats the spirit… take on the Church… it’s not like they rely on public support for anything!!!

       
      • oh for goodness sake, occupy something already.

         
      • Unfortunately St Paul’s authority members are showing their true colours, by confirming their priority is profit over people. We have arrived at a time in our civilisation whereby action needs to be taken to rid society of the corruption that affects humanity. This is our time to disinfect our government, our banking system and the 147 global corporations who infect us. We must break this putrid system and install transparent independent regulatory authorities to recover corporate tax currently hidden in tax havens and make our governments transparent and separate from corporate sponsorship. Did you know that Tony Blair is paid £2million per year by JP Morgan……Mic check, mic check: corporations manage our politicians careers! Its time to make this practice illegal. 20,000 people sitting in mass peaceful protest may be the only way forward in this situation…..Only normal people can make this happen…….Get down to St Pauls, stop relying on others and make it happen. Unfortunately apathy prevails today so we really could only have one chance at this!

         
        • St Paul’s is nowhere near the stock exchange – so why pick on the church
          – its the protestors showing their true colours. The protestors not only have right to protest, but I believe have every reason to, but they need to protest this is not in the right location, I can believe it will have no effect on the financial fraudsters because they can ignore it – its in the wrong place.

           
          • police prevented protesters from occupying the stock exchange.thats why they are camped outside of the church…….keep strong 99%

             
          • The only place closer is Paternoster Square which is Private property and cordoned off. It is 50 metres away at most!

             
      • D’you mean financially speaking? They don’t get any public (state) funding, if that’s what you mean.

         
        • Don’t they like other religious organisations have tax exemption status?

           
          • There is no tax concessions on commercial activities of St Pauls, donations however are treated in the same way as other donations to Charity.

             
      • Can’t see the problem actually. Aren’t the protesters following the example of Jesus when he threw the money lenders out of the Temple?

         
    • St Pauls Trustees:

      Chairman
      Sir John Stuttard PWC partner, Former Lord Mayor of London.

      Trustees
      The Right Reverend Graeme Knowles, Dean of St Paul’s
      Dame Helen Alexander DBE Deputy chair of the CBI, director of Centrica plc
      Lord Blair of Boughton Former Metropolitan Police Commissioner
      Roger Gifford Investment banker, big in City of London
      John Harvey – Not clearly identified
      Joyce Hytner OBE – Theatre director
      Gavin Ralston Global Head of Product and leading international asset manager at Schroder Investment Management
      Carol Sergeant CBE – Chief Risk Director at Lloyds TSB, formerly Managing Director for Regulatory Process and Risk at the FSA
      John Spence OBE – Former Managing Director, Business Banking, LloydsTSB

      Thats not the church, that sounds rather like our target no?

       
      • Come on, they dont just control our economy, they control the church too ! What dont they control.

        Perhaps the church should be reclaimed along with the financial system?

         
      • beware the pharisees…… and i thought the money lenders had been thrown out the temple. If only i believed in the 2nd coming, these guyys would be in for it. Lets have a reckoning anyway.

         
    • Strongly disagree, showing your balls would be to realize that the occupiers are being outmanevouered in this circumstance. The protest isn’t against the church, and every perceived negative that is forced upon the church will be a negative forced upon the movement!!

       
    • I thought this was occupy London Stock Exchange and the Bank of England, you seem to have lost direction….. Go for the easy target, nice shops close by Starbucks etc, very nice, just a bunch of posing wimps!!
      Why don’t you move to the places you are supposed to be harassing instead of a church, go to Cannary Wharf where the money men have their offices, or is it too cold there. These protesters are a disgrace to the movement do the right thing and move to the banks or go home.

       
      • Moving to Cannary Wharf would put the cat amongst the pigeoens.

         
      • The decisions that get taken by this movement are made through a democratic process and your lack of respect for this process and the decisions that get made are what people are fighting against. I’m hearing many comments along these lines from people who do not interact with the process to make their voice heard, who merely assume authority on the basis of their own doctrines and who merely wish to impose power through them. How far removed are you from the corrupt/broken system that has brought us to this point? …

         
        • this nails it!

          Trust the process, Occupiers, not the pontificators!

           
    • Shame on you. I hope you feel ashamed of your words and actions. The over all feeling on this blog/ forum is ‘lets start stating facts, lets throw in names and I know more about than you kind of attitude’. The more knowledgable wins this…etc. Lets just say with emotion not facts, you are not right and they are wrong on this one. If this is the result of the occupiers actions and they still remain there when down the road is The Bank, is Liverpool St, then shame on them even more. They are being more detrimental to the cause then beneficial.

       
      • Yes, the most knowledgeable does usually win in a debate, online or otherwise. Admitting your own ignorance shows even more that there is no solid foundation to your arguments, but you continue lashing out wildly with this kind of invective regardless. You need to realize that we are not the enemy, you’ll still have the same problems when those tents are gone, though not such an easy target for your venom.

         
      • I agree with you Sally on the first part of your comment – sometimes the people who assert themselves as being knowledgeable as well as those who shout loudest end up being heard more but more often than not it is strength of feeling and judgement (strategic judgement) that brings consensus. The outcomes of the camp – which you are an active part of if you attend – are the result of a working system that is in it’s infancy and people are still learning the process . If you are not here with us you will not be heard and your view will not get represented…

         
      • Sally, the answer to your comment is very simple. the priority is to have a peaceful and lawful occupation. The original plans were to settle in Paternoster Square, but an army of policemen, including many on horses, prevented us from doing so. Why? because Paternoster Square is privately owned and the owners (Mitsubishi) issued an injunction on the square prior to the occupation. So many thought, let’s find some other space in the City that we can occupy. I was very much against the idea of camping near St Pauls (even though it IS close to the LSX) because it could have sent the wrong image. But it turns out that all the City of London is a private – in fact it is owned by the CoL Corporation and that we cannot camp anywhere else.

        So the question is: why on earth the police guards the bankers’ squares so jealously and leaves a symbolic place like St Pauls ‘unprotected’? If you think that we are a problem (and I fail to understand why), it should ring a bell the fact that the banks and not the Cathedral are getting all the protection.

         
    • 1. 200 protesters with good intentions but has anyone thought about the 200 lowly paid workers, cooks, cleaners, waiters in Paternoster Square who already have been told to not come into work and will soon be out of jobs and their dependents. Collateral damage?

      2. Whilst the General assembly may have been in touch with the Fire Brigade and confirmed that St Paul’s has not had contact with the City of London health & safety officer, that does not mean that the Cathedral has not received independent advice that there is no alternative but to close. Why on earth would they close when they have been so open and supportive ?

      E.G. The Chapter House is home to staff and fire engine access is impossible. This is just one clear example, there are others. Shame that Occupy LSX is now turning on the hand that supported them because they have spoken the truth and acted lawfully to protect lives of their staff.

      4. “We accepted the erection of barriers to allow access”……..we accepted?? Does anyone see the irony of the repe

       
      • 4. “We accept” …….you do not have a leader but this language is something Komsomol would have been proud of.

         
      • health and safety concerns are expressed through the compilation of a risk assessment which 1. identifies the hazard, 2. assesses the risk presented by the hazard and its liklihood of causing harm and, 3. identifies the ways in which the hazard can be mitigated. any “advice” must be based on a risk assessment… if it is not, then it’s health and safety being used as an excuse, much in the same way as conkers were banned from a school playground using health and safety as an excuse. the health and safety executive have made it quite clear that they do not support this use of health and safety regulation – which was designed to prevent unscrupulous employers from causing harm to their workers by putting them in hazardous situations in the name of profit. see the health and safety executive website for more on debunking health and safety myths.

         
  2. The decision forced on to St Pauls is a very sad day for both the OLSX and the country as a whole. St Pauls is one of the largest tourist attractions in the UK and relies on the money it receives from the visitors and donations to exist. Closing the Cathedral would mean a loss of revenue in excess of £20,000 per day for the church.

    This is going to look very bad on OLSX. The recent decisions to show support to the likes of Dale Farm, Palistinians, Greek unrest has done little to reaffirm the belief of many that the protest is anything other than a left-wing minority group with no real cause, leadership or legitimacy.

    Work with the Church, leave the immediate forecourt of the steps and get back to the core values that started OLSX. I’ve been advising of this for days, but you’ve failed to listen! You have little time to regain the initiative otherwise the protest is doomed.

     
    • Paul – This letter says, and I’ve seen, they’ve moved around the camp and tried to prevent blocking the Cathedral.

      Your comment is hard to follow because it seems just against the idea of a protest in the first place, and prioritises the Cathedral over the protest, full-stop.

      Let’s be very honest. St Paul’s is a beautiful national treasure –but it won’t go to decay in the coming weeks – and I dont think it’s Trustees would allow this to have long term impact (even if that were possible). These weeks will be a blip in it’s long history. If it can withstand bombs, it can withstand democratic (peaceful) protest, surely?

      I think the truth seems that the coinciding locations is unfortunate. This protest does have a message, and it’s not just anti-capitalism but about visibility to the financial titans of the UK that have created the current climate — this is where they are.

      So — Suggestions for where people should reorganise without sacrificing the point of the protest?

      (If people have spoken about this, sorry, I haven’t been down in a few days!)

      PS – Part of the reason this hasn’t had the violence of previous protests is due to the ‘staying in one place’. It causes less tension, and less nervousness among police & protesters. ”Occupy” has really seemed to work on this level.

       
      • I agree in part with items you mention, including the staying in one place and the peaceful protest /refraining from violence.

        I have supported the protest from day 1. I don’t usually support protests however this had genuine legitimacy in it’s original aims for the removal of corporate influence in politics and also the wholesale change in the financial system. I do not support the various add-on causes that have been bolt-on on since the protest started, nor do I genuinely feel that the Church wishes to be linked to any group who has the bolt-on agendas that have arisen since Tuesday night.

        The protest had the support of the church, it was attracting mass media attention, it was peaceful and showed a new way forward for protest, legitimate protest that had the full support of the country as a whole. This has slowly been eradicated over the week to where it is now being viewed as a minority group protest that has alienated the vast majority of it’s original support. The majority may not be at the camp, but it’s the majority that will get the protest where it needs to be.

        Just as Jesus threw over the tables of the lenders on the Church steps, so must the protest stick to it’s original agenda of financial reform and removing corporate political influence. Target those who have the say, not a national treasure that gives the group negative media.

        Which reminds me – use the media now to thank the church, ask their advice on how they can assist you in continuing the protest without effecting their day to day activities… but do it through the media, that way the trustee’s cannot use the Church as a weapon to try and close you down.

         
    • I agree wiith this.

      This is not about anything other than Crony Capitalism. Fraud. A zombie financial system. Corporate socialism

      Siding with anything else is missing the point. The whole thing is a media exercise and as such everything you do should be an advert against the money scam. Nothing else.

      As for working with what could be regarded as the greatest scam on earth, I’ll leave that for you to untangle.

      Please don’t be a left wing rant, be a beacon of truth about the fraud and lies.

       
      • The problem that you face is that it is simple human nature to be intimidated by large groups regardless of the peaceful intentions that they may have. It is good that OLSX have taken actions to reduce the effect on the cathedral but at the end of the day the only way you could reduce it would be to move away.

        Other posters have mentioned moving to local parks and perhaps this would be a beneficial move. You cannot accuse the Church of putting profits over people as it is likely that while you are there there will be less people to visit the cathedral. I back the campaign in general but it is a fine line between garnering the support of the public and generating ire from them. I hope you keep to the right side of it but I worry that the actions the Church has felt forced into will be damaging.

         
        • Moving to the parks is a good idea – there are common land parks where you cannot be evicted from.

          Alternatively – move from place to place every few days with a march in the process. Keep it peaceful and no-one will have cause to complain.

           
          • st paul’s is not even in sight line to “LSX”

             
  3. The camp needs more space anyway. I suggest that a public park would be a better location, from where actions can be sprung from and people can effectively communicate without tripping over tents.

     
    • I agree a larger space with ground to put down tent pegs would be much more suited to the camp than its current site.

       
      • Thats what I was thinking – This movement is going to grow – and if we are lucky it will grow quickly

        The Logisitcal problem at the moment is not enough space for more people to come and join. This is a pretty big problem, you can’t show how many people want to join if there is no space for them to join.

        We should be on the lookout for other public spaces we could occupy – even if you keep a small group at St Pauls, having another area where it is easier to communicate would be great – Last time I was down there the traffic noise made it difficult to hear.

        I also think that moving might let people know we are not against other peoples way of life, we want to work with people, not aliante them.

        So my vote is to move the protest to another public space where it is easier for the General assembly to take place, and allows access to more people than want to come join with tents.

         
        • but anyone who wants to ‘join’ the protest already has the option of setting up elsewhere if there is too little room at st pauls

           
  4. I heard that the decision too ask the camp to move was taken in light of the defacing (graffiti) of a building next to St Paul’s and someone carving into a door….unconfirmed as yet….

     
  5. “We also understand that some individuals were in the process of arranging for a contribution to be made to St Paul’s in recognition of their hospitality. It is a shame the Cathedral authorities have decided to take this action before those preparations came to fruition, as we expected them to in the next 12 hours.”

    That sounds really blackmail-y and childish. “we were going to give you a donation for your trouble, but now you’re fed up with us, we’re not going to… sucks to be you! or maybe we will if you change your mind…”.

    meh.

     
    • it’s factual…and outlines that we are not abusing or disregarding the churches hospitality in any way

       
      • I didn’t say it wasn’t factual, just that it sounded petulant.

         
        • I agree. This paragraph urgantly needs to be revised out…

           
      • I agree with you, you should keep that in. The decision made by St. Pauls was clearly one with the financial sector trustees of the board of St. Paul’s in mind.

        You can show you had good intent, while all they have to show is lies about “health and safety” motivated by the very interests that are the reason for the camp in the first place.

         
        • how close is st paul’s to the stock exchange, bank of england or any other huge financial institution.

           
  6. I can’t believe this! what is our next move? I left the camp briefly yesterday to go to university, but had planned to return on Sunday……is there plans for change of location? how soon will this come into effect? I need to come and help move my tent and the rest of the camp…but where do we go?

     
    • At university……you honestly haven’t a clue. In years to come when you get work in the area you studied then you’ll realise how hard things are for everyone, rich or poor, that are working in the area you are occupying. That hard work is what helps support the system you are using. At that moment of realisation I hope you feel ashamed.

       
      • Oh boo hoo, please get over yourself. This is one of the richest areas in London. I’m sorry if you were the tea lady at St Pauls or something but you come across as the Daily Mail reading type who really should get out more. University is damn expensive, so don’t act as if the country is doing anyone any favors by subsidizing the average person to attend, because that doesnt happen these days.

         
        • Nope not a daily mail reader but a well educated university undergraduate and post-graduate educated person and talking from experienced. Someone who just because I have an opinion you don’t like you feel you need to domineer me in some way. I talk from what I know and I know that after a decade of working the opinion I had at university were mostly thought without foundation. Real life is the best form of education, to see what is real to experience it. University is not, it just leads you to think you know what you’re talking about when in fact you really don’t.

           
      • if we allow the present state of affairs to prevail, read
        ‘IF (a pretty big if) you get work’
        for
        ‘when you get work’…….

         
    • At uni ? well done girl, you understand exactly. what’s happening don’t let others who think they are superior to you put you down with there low media opinions. You carry on dear Im coming over on Sunday with my daughter who by the way is at University also and she is very much aware of what is going on. don’t listen to pompous people who think they know better than you go with your heart x

       
  7. “OccupyLSX have tried hard to accommodate the Cathedral’s concerns in any way we can”
    ironic use of “accommodate”, no?…

     
    • “Trying hard to accommodate the Cathedral’s wishes”.

      REALITY CHECK GUYS!

      It’s not your place of residence, never has been, never will be. Effectively, you’re trespassing on their land, and they rightly, should tell you lot to leave the grounds of the Cathedral, as is their devine right to.

      Secondly, your aim is to “Occupy London Stock Exchange”. Well, go ahead and occupy that. You’re killing local businesses, and irritating a lot of rational people, who either see your view or vice versa. But that view is tainted when you’re effectively trespassing on the Cathedral, and not the LSX.

      Thirdly, if you’re all against capitalism, why, on many occasions, have your “campers” been seen in Starbucks? Surely that is one of the most profitable companies in the world that should feel the “brunt” of this pathetic protest.

      Spending every day there til Christmas or whenever it is you lot are going to leave, won’t prove anything. I agree with the reasons you are doing it for, but some of the groups hypocritical actions will kill your reasons for doing this. St Pauls Cathedral has my utmost sympathy.

       
      • If a church fails to be a space of the people it has failed full stop!

        what on earth do you mean when you say:

        ‘ you’re trespassing on their land, and they rightly, should tell you lot to leave the grounds of the Cathedral, as is their devine right to.’?

        A building dedicated to the Glory of God doesn’t BELONG to the people who are organising it’s affairs – that is obscene!

        If you knew the Bible they aim to follow, you would realise it only understands ‘ownership’ to be ‘stewardship’ even in terms of ‘personal’ life, let alone public life, and how much more so public worship space!!

        They are merely the stewards of the space, on behalf of God and for the people. ‘Ownership’ and ‘Trespassing’ simply don’t enter the equation.

        Occupiers have as much right to be there as the Dean, himself’

         
  8. Please don’t give up,perhaps a park would be a more suitable site.I am given hope by the occupy movement and so are 1000’s of others.Stay strong and carry on you are doing the right thing.

     
  9. Is there any genuinely *public* space in London?

     
    • an apposite question, and when the ‘right to protest’ is so curtailed by not being allowed to stay this place or that, or to march down that street or this, is it not becoming an empty ‘right’?

       
  10. Makes me ashamed of the Church of England. Any Christian can see the legitimacy of this protest.

     
    • not when the OLSX issues statements supporting volient action in various locations in the UK and around the world. That alienates the masses attracting only the minority.

       
      • Do you have any facts to support that bold assumption? From my observations support has been increasing. And there is growing anger in the public at large about the whole system of social injustices. Do you speak to many ordinary people?

         
        • I speak to a very wide ranging set of people from all ages, all backgrounds and all social sides of the political spectrum.

          I speak with protestors who have attended the camp, those who have supported from afar and those in blogs who have been supporting then fading over the week.

          There has been a growth in the camp, but to singularly think of the camp as the only support is naive, likewise to judge the level of support from the numbers at the camp is very false.

          Read the vast number of blogs, listen to those who have support at the start but have now distanced themselves from it. Where are the financial workers, the white collar workers and the blue collar workers all of whom were very publicly showing support at the start – they’ve gone. Your left with students and seasoned/professional protesters.

           
        • Most ‘ordinary people’ are too busy getting on with life and going to work to care. Discuss…

           
          • but we're just ordinary people...
          • It’s not that they’re too busy to care, just too busy to be physically there! Can’t believe how many people haven’t understood that OF COURSE many of the people who can occupy full time are those not in full time work. I’m intending to take some holiday as soon as I can and get down there… in the meantime, I thank the Occupiers for being there on my behalf…

             
    • yes it’s not only a legitimate protest, but a neccessary one, but I see no legitimacy in its location its not close enough to stock exchange

       
  11. It’s clear where Jesus would stand in this. We don’t have to guess, just read the Gospels:

    And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of robbers.” – Matthew 21:12-17

     
  12. Lol it seems people really try hard to come on this site and moan about people that are trying to make a change! It may not be the way you would do it, but hey, thats your choice! The truth is you probably would never do anything to try to effect change!… I find it pretty sad…

    Anyway on topic what a nice show from the christians! Lmao… A christian btw is someone that follows jesus’ steps! Would jesus throw people out for trying to combat corruption and greed? Jesus would let the people sleep inside!!! All the church cares about is money! They’ve made that clear! If it’s going to reflect badly on anyone it’s the church! The protesters have bent over backwards to be helpful and considerate! All the church has done is not evict them!

    Instead now they wanna use guilt tactics! Oh we’re worried about people heath and safety! Really? Let people sleep inside then! Well we’re worried about a fire risk! Really? You don’t have a kitchen in there? Wouldn’t letting the protesters use it reduce the fire risk? Well we’ll lose too much money! Really? FUCK MONEY! What did jesus do when god’s house was used to make money? What kinda shit is this?

     
    • You’re an idiot. What idiotic comments. Really.. honestly.

       
      • on the contrary, sally, what barry says would appear to make perfect sense. The professed disciples of Jesus should follow him and forsake worldly expedients – this may be a challenge and a test of faith, but who said it would be easy?

        One would hope to see such very public disciples rise to the challenge – this is called ‘integrity’ and it is often how we find out the level of reality in our faith – ie whether it is just empty words or real costly action; ‘money where the mouth is’ sort of thing…..

        good on ya, bas xxx

         
        • yes, what elisa said

           
          • Really what part of “F*** money” and “what kind of s**t is this?” makes sense to you? I am sure those would not be words that jesus would say or even use that level of agression!!! Talk the talk but you don’t walk it!

             
  13. I’m sorry, but all you’ve achieved in less than a week, is nothing more than a NUISANCE.
    You want attention, to get your message across?
    Simply protest against Parliament, or the Bank of England.
    Finish the week on a high and take your protest to where it truly counts, or go home and join the march on 5th November, because this week has not been successful.
    Good luck.

     
    • if by nuisance you mean a constant presence forcing people to think about the issues of corporate greed and political corruption, without actually preventing anybodies day to day life, then yes I suppose thats appropriate. I assume it must be a real nuisance to not be able to keep your head in the sand and actually face up to the fact that there’s a massive problem in the system. I suppose also its a nuisance that people have collectively decided that rather than sit at home moaning about the problems and feeling helpless, to join together and actually try to solve the crisis and come up with ideas for complete political and financial reform whilst making a very obvious stand to say “I’m a human being…and I have values” or “we 99% are all in this together”. It’s not just about getting the message across, it’s also about developing ideas COLLECTIVELY to combat this corrupt system. The word nuisance is completely inappropriate and rather ignorant of what has been achieved. Above anything else, it’s given people hope. And that, on its own is good enough.

       
      • Seemingly far more hope than the church (any church) is willing or able to offer.

         
        • This is only the beginning of an historic protest. Movements like this always begin slowly and then gather momentum, as everyone catches up. I really appreciate what the protestors are doing – this is such an important cause, it permeates many aspects of everyones lives. Global companies and banks need to be accountable they are wrecking peoples lives and trashing the planet, I for one have had enough of it. Don’t let the criticisms and teething problems with St Pauls get you down, “there will always be nay-sayers”. Ignore them, carry on, what you are doing is so important and I am itching to get down there soon to help! 🙂 .

           
          • Beginning maybe, but it’ll soon be nipped in the bud when the Cathedral exercises its right to evict eveyone from its grounds.

            Maybe then you’ll protest in the right place, and not create a nuisance for ordinary people who work in the area.

             
          • ditto

             
      • They are greedy. You are all jealous!

         
        • but we're just ordinary people...
        • ‘….create a nuisance for ordinary people who work in the area.’

          won’t be many of them if things stay as they are, mate; the point is – ‘nee naw nee naw’ (emergency vehicle noise) -THIS IS A CRISIS!! and coping with a bit of difficulty to emerge on the safe side of it, is inevitable.

          way I see it, the protesters are the ones putting up with 99% of the aggro, not us ‘ordinary people’ by which I suppose you mean all the rest of us getting on with our own business and doing sweet f.a. about said crisis – d’you think it’s fun ‘sleeping’ in a tent on bloody STONE COBBLES in this weather?

          Appropriate responses are ‘gratitude’, ‘humility’ and errr, possibly ‘shame’ – certainly not
          snotty self-righteous crap.

           
  14. It’s a shameful decision, but sadly does not surprise me.

     
    • It was more surprising when the church showed support for me, I couldn’t believe it.

      Pretty crafty using health and safety so as not to lose face, i.e. “it’s not unchristian, we’re concerned for peoples welfare!” It smells of the church being pressured through weaselly means. Jeez, at least the batons and riot shields are honest. 🙁

       
      • So much this. I think someone has put pressure on the church in order to sour public opinion of the protest.

         
        • there may also be considerable disagreement within the ‘hallowed precincts’ – canon giles fraser (initial welcomer) is not dean graeme knowles (head geezer and issuer of current statement) – perhaps there will be further developments!

           
        • I agree. The usual divide-and-rule tactics of the 1%

           
  15. St. Paul’s Cathedral most likely received a spate of complaints from their city friends and investment opportunities.

     
    • I am not a city worker and I complained. As much as the occupiers tink they should be there, freedom of speech, there are some of us that feel they should not be there. I complained.

       
      • Yes people like you do nothing but complain, then when someone tries to do something about it, you complain some more. What a nice life you must lead.

         
        • S not what you are all doing not effectively complaining? Horse for courses I could say!i

           
          • but we're just ordinary people...
  16. This is a shame and OLX seem to be doing every thing in their power to not be too much of a burden,taking into consideration the extraordinary circumstances. But hey the Church of England is not exactly strapped for money. Sorry these figures are 2006. http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/content/news_syndication/article_050331cofe.shtml

     
    • everything except move to a better location where the protest can be SEEN to be against financial institutiuons.

       
  17. The church is part of the established order – remember the “We rule you, (politicians) We fool you (the church)” cartoon? – of course they are going to push back. They are just going to try to do it in a genteel way and try to make you feel guilty.

    Keep up the good work of highlighting the massive systemic problems in our society. Wish I could be there with you. So do many, many other people.

     
  18. There is no good reason why the protest needs to be based outside St Paul’s – it isn’t a citadel of the financial elite. It wasn’t even the protesters’ first choice of location- they’re only there at all because they weren’t allowed to occupy Paternoster Square. A move to a less sensitive, but still visible location would be a good PR move for the occupiers and would not compromise their message at all.

     
    • ‘it isn’t a citadel of the financial elite’

      well, I think that is just what is at issue here – is it or isn’t? I guess we are beginning to find out…….

       
  19. One group is following the teachings of Jesus and trying to fight inequality and the other is from the church.

    This is a sad day.

     
    • Not a sad Day.

      It has been for centries and many years before that. Religion is a Corportation with shareholders and CEOs, making money by making people feel bad about themselves. Stay there, just expand to a new location to allow for more to join. Wouldn’t it be nice to have enough camps to truely OCCUPY LONDON, and not just a tiny point on it’s vast map;

       
  20. no public spaces exist in london for protest, but you can go on a march, if you want

     
  21. best to give up, form a new plan, try again….. just meet up in london for marches…flash mobs…keep mobile, hot desk in starbucks….che marched around cuba, he never had a base

     
    • To be fair if Che stayed in one place for a night I doubt he would be alive in the morning, especially in his later years.

      The work of people like Che have allowed us the freedom for this to happen. So don’t be scared of using your hard earned rights, people died so you could do this shit.

      Anyway Che killed people so he is not a great hero in my eyes. Easy to be brave when you have an AK 47 and a massive following. As I see it it would be hard to pluck up the courage to get your arse down to London and try to make a difference with no sound leadership. To stand up as an individual against the huge tyranny that is the capitalist system .

       
  22. This was inevitable, You should stay till Sunday, allowing for all the interesting events you have planned over the week end and then move somewhere else…

     
  23. I thought your movement was called OccupyLSX not OccupyStPauls !

     
    • You only need to look at the financial entaglements of the church to see that the encampment outside St. Paul’s is actually very reasonable. As other commenters have succinctly pointed out.

       
      • Seems a shame to suggest that the church doesn’t require funding. If only that was the case.

        I suspect that until all forms of currency (and equivalents) are phased out I don’t think any of you will be truly happy. Its inevitable that some will have more than others (not condoning it, just saying, so don’t shoot!!) I suspect until it is you that has more than another, there’ll always be grounds for argument against inequality.

        Too many idoligical theorists here to actually make a practical difference. Less theory, more compromise to effect realistic change!.

         
        • but we're just ordinary people...
  24.  
  25. leave london, re-group, re-plan, then break into different groups to ‘flash’ occupy different parts of london…..hit and run, recruit on the move

     
  26. Sun-tzu: If your enemy is superior, evade him. If angry, irritate him. If equally matched, fight, and if not split and reevaluate.

     
  27. Surprised your statement tries to use money as an influence for them letting you stay (suggesting that you were going to give you a donation, but unless they change their mind, you won’t). What are you representing again?

    I recognise the protest is not against St Paul’s, and it’s proximity is unfortunate, and I’m not sure everyone in the protests would try and lever that because the board has officials on that you don’t like everyone who values St Paul’s deserves to be disrupted (as half the comments seem to suggest), but it is a great shame that in seeking to protest, you are now disrupting the quiet rhythm of some people’s spirituality. Perhaps it is time to realise as fun as it is in numbers, a smaller group tells the same story, and respects your neighbours better.

    Personal view (and I know some will disagree) is the church have been amazing over the last few days, and to see some commenters quickly turn as soon as they aren’t totally supportive of your actions suggests you were only interested as long as they did what you wanted. I hope most protestors have more noble motives than that, and it’s a shame to not see that reflected.

    (And apart from a couple of points scorers/trolls above, good to see most people are not trying to make this a religious debate. Ignoring the few cheap shots, it’s actually an interesting discussion on how church and society do meet!)

     
    • The idea of making a financial donation seemed to go above what was necessary to me. It was something that was apparently being arranged prior to St. Paul’s decision, you cannot give an organisation seemingly motivated by the trustees heavily involved in the finance industry a financial donation when they are responsible for most likely the end result of those protesting being moved on.

      The “health and safety” reason was clearly bogus as the 4 PM update seems to show. And in light of that, i’m sure the financial institution friends of the C of E will be able to guarantee St. Paul’s a very useful some of money!

       
  28. I agree with various things from these different posts. I don’t know if it will help but my thoughts are as follows:

    1) You need to move campsite for these two reasons:

    a. Essential to keep the public and media onside. Some will hate what you’re doing and seek any reason to criticize and make you look bad. You don’t have to give them extra ammunition.

    b. You need more space – the protest has to expand otherwise you leave yourselves open to the criticism that you are fringe and unpopular. You have tons of support – give the rest of us the time and space to come and make our voices heard.

    2) Loads of people will come to St Paul’s to support you this weekend. Gather everyone up on Saturday and take a walk ending at the new campsite.

    3) Someone needs to research which central London park has the strongest rights of public access and the least chance of eviction.

    5) Don’t worry that you won’t be camped out right in view of the banks and stock. Leave enough people at the new camp to resist eviction and gather extra support from day visitors for walks to protest locations in the City.

    6) It can’t be easy for staff at St Paul’s. I’m damned sure they feel the same way re Jesus-and-the-temple-money-lenders as everyone else. However, they have very real financial obligations just like all of us who work during the week but want to offer our support at the weekends. Give them a way to save face and placate all the various forces acting on them – ask them what sized camp would be acceptable in the long-term and leave that as a satellite camp when you move on.

    7) Do some research on other sites in the City where small satellite camps can be established.

    8) I agree you need to stay focused. You may draw a bit of extra support if you publicly voice solidarity with other causes but you definitely make it more difficult for the majority of us to support you. Keep it simple, keep it focused.

    9) You need a sound-bite that encapsulates what you stand for and what you want.
    10) Keep it going, I for one will be there tomorrow (Saturday) to lend my support and I’m sure I won’t be the only one.

     
    • This is an excellent comment! The first points are particularly strong, especially as the closure of St. Pauls will ring badly with the conservative British public (I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if the closure happened with the ideal of forcing a bad image on the protestors)

       
    • I agree – there isn’t any room for the protest to grow in the current location. I visited yesterday and tried to take part in a debate happening outside the Star.Books tent which was impossible – only a handful of people were able to gather around as other tents were restricting access. Also, the lack of space will psychologically put off more people from brining their tents and joining you.

      Another point I would like to bring up, is it would be good to have some of the protestors trying to actively engage visitors in conversation or giving out some sort of literature to explain what is happening – maybe a print out of the manifesto that was posted around the site that people can take home. I came down from Sheffield for the day specifically to visit the camp and spent a good deal of time there yesterday and didn’t feel able to approach any of the participants as they all seemed too wrapped up in their own little conversations.

       
    • Completely agree with this outline of strategy (are you an historian?or PR expert?)-everyone, please don’t forget the Church’s mastery of political intrigue masked by ingenuousness. There is a great deal of support out here but so much of it is from people being interested/supportive for the first time and they are easily swayed/tricked. You must keep this support or you will be marginalized.

       
      • I would add, after conversation in the chat room:

        * Moving the camp en-masse will leave us open to being kettled and bullied by the police.

        * We don’t want the important kit taken off us, we don’t want key organisers to be arrested.

        * The police will easily be able to block us from a new camp if they know where it is.

        Therefore:

        We need a large site with an open perimeter (parkland with no walls/fences.

        We need several potential sites.

        We need to let people know where to camp at the last possible minute via twitter/internet/blackberry etc.

        This way new protestors can get into London and set up a second camp without being stopped – then the St Paul’s camp can move to the new camp with any weekend/day visitors helping lug the stuff and make it hard for the police to bully everyone.

         
        • ‘….create a nuisance for ordinary people who work in the area.’

          won’t be many of them if things stay as they are, mate; the point is – ‘nee naw nee naw’ (emergency vehicle noise) -THIS IS A CRISIS!! and coping with a bit of difficulty to emerge on the safe side of it, is inevitable.

          way I see it, the protesters are the ones putting up with 99% of the aggro, not us ‘ordinary people’ by which I suppose you mean all the rest of us getting on with our own business and doing sweet f.a. about said crisis – d’you think it’s fun ‘sleeping’ in a tent on bloody STONE COBBLES in this weather?

          Appropriate responses are ‘gratitude’, ‘humility’ and errr, possibly ‘shame’ – certainly not
          snotty self-righteous crap.

           
    • Very good points!

       
    • Beautifully put. Totally agree with all these points.

       
  29. The need to move to a bigger space is going to get a lot more obvious as time passes… it needs to happen, and sooner rather than later!

     
    • Might I suggest the middle of the North Sea?

       
      • To be a true devil’s advocate you’ve got to provide reasoning!

         
      • Is that Trustee Sir Ian Blair? Look I know how you like to execute innocent Brazilians on the underground system, but as a trustee of a church you should have a little more compassion towards the less fortunate in society.

         
  30. Not surprised at all by the church, seeing as how they ran the first international trading company.
    But why not go to Speakers corner and camp out there

     
    • Yes I think this would be ideal. Traditionally a place for discussion, a lot of space, and still central enough to organize walks

       
  31. St Paul’s appears to be both shifty and childish.

    Shame on them!

     
    • shame on the protestors for picking on a soft target as an alternative to a direct target.
      St Paul’s is not by the stock exchange

       
  32. The problem with moving onto the park (as ideal the idea is) would be that over on the park there is no impending effects against the government you are protesting against. These negative actions are what is going to keep the protest noticed and followed, and without a better media coverage it will be hard for the rest of the country to listen to the protesters over the media slating it. Then lies the question, “How do we get more media coverage?” and I simply cannot provide an answer for that without the help of hackers or illegal actions being taken. The other occupy protests are noticed because of the violence and the persistence to keep the voices heard over all opposing the movements by media. What other actions can be taken to increase the success of this movement?

     
    • this is a good point. What about Victoria tower park, right on the government’s backdoor. They won’t like it, but at least it won’t get the third party (the church) involved

       
    • Agreed, but you can send people out from larger camps to protest at any location in the City you can think of.

      People aren’t working there between 12pm and 6am so why do you need to be there?

      Just get there during the rush hours and you’ll be plenty visible and plenty annoying enough 😉

       
  33. This is our first real hurdle! Until now it has been plain sailing – it obviously was not going to last.
    Things to bear in mind:
    1. The church of England hold more land than any other landowner in the country, their riches are common knowledge, where and how they invest their money is unknown. They do NOT need our sympathy.
    As a believer in love/honesty/trust and fair playfor all I am not, personally, an admirer of religion – but everyone has their own opinions – as ‘Occupylsx’ surely it is NOT our remit to pander to the churches’ wishes.
    2. Probably, with the backing of the city of London police and council, they have released this statement as a threat – hoping everyone will quietly pack up and leave!
    This is not a camping holiday – it is a ‘global’ occupation, showing the world that we do not agree with the way governments are running our countries!
    There is work to do – (the fractious and disorganised meeting Thursday night showed how far we have to go) and we must allow NO ONE to turn us away from our objective.
    Take the statement and learn from it, however pleasant people seem they do not approve – and that goes for the bankers, the police,westminster council..et al.
    Now is the time to stand firm, be strong, and be counted!

     
    • And make tomorrow massive!

       
    • I don’t doubt what you say – I just think that the protesters are fighting a PR war and if they stay they make themselves look like the bad guys in the (biased) eyes of the media who will then force that opinion down everyone’s throats.

      Also the protest needs to grow if it’s to achieve anything and it can’t grow in a confined space with a very limited life expectancy.

       
      • This guy talks so much sense. Please listen to him.

         
  34. Solidarity from OccupyOrlando. Keep us updated; we’re facing mounting pressure to move as well. Our peaceful occupation and willingness to cooperate with city and police have upset certain radical groups. They have been holding private meetings with city officials this week to try and shut us down.

     
    • don’t let it get to you – you’re doing such amazing stuff – you people are SUCH an inspiration. There really is NO WAY to be without enemies if you are effective and, indeed, it is a mark of your effectiveness.

      LOVE PEACE JUSTICE TRUTH are really radical – stand firm – God bless you xxxxxxxxxx

       
  35. Apologies for the cross post, but this issue is going up like wildfire on the guardian website. Of which I will (lazily) copy and paste my own personal comment.

    —–

    The thing I don’t understand is why protestors haven’t been more mobile in the first place. It seems like a typically English charactaeristic to “play cricket” so to speak, rather than actually getting their voices heard. When you compare the settlement to the marches happening all over the world, it looks like a quaint little tea party. Anger at the banks should be directed AT the banks. There is no reason why people cannot disperse, and enter the banks themselves, and if they get moved on, then go to another bank, and so on. There’s plenty of them around. Protest will never work when it’s this polite. What’s ironic is that our establishment praised the revolutionary uprising in the “arab spring” yet when it’s their home turf, they will have none of it. The hypocrosy of which, the mind boggles!

    Secondly, it’s interesting to note that so far the protests are mainly held by the middle class, students and so on. However when shit hits the fan, and benefits will be cut, those in true poverty in areas such as Hackney who at the moment have little interest in the subject, will be forced to. Does anyone think that a lot of these people will want to sit down and keep things clean to protest? Or have the riots of a few weeks ago already been forgotten.

    We have to prepare for a situation that might not be as orderly, it is imperative now, that the movement gets spearheaded by the educated, so that any revolutionary action that gets taken (i would say almost inevitably, going on the events of the world at the moment) get’s carried out in the right way with a clear direction, rather than subverted by the lawless chaos that occured during the london riots.

    We need stronger action against corporate greed, yet we also need more enlightened direction, that directs people toward a holistically sound perspective. I don’t believe that this is the worst of it so far, far from it. It only takes one bank to collapse or be furher downgraded for people to start losing faith in the banks. Banks at the moment are nowhere near their %2(!!!!!) requirement for capital. People already were arrested in New York for trying to close their accounts and ask for their money bank.

    Those with savings should be cautious. A run on the banks would create absolute chaos, but in many ways it might be the only way out of this mess. We need to bring our heads out of the sand, and realise that for too long people with wealth and power have merely created it for themselves, without it being there in the first place. There IS no real money in the world anymore, and now the straw has broken the camel’s back. The trust is gone and money is nothing without trust. We have already seen alternative methods of trading happening at low levels. An example of which has been the donating and swapping of goods in all the protests, in a way they can be seen as having built their own macro-economy.

    And for all those who think that this is some usual tripe from some radical anti-capitalist lefty or whatever, you are living in a dream if you think we are in capitalism now. What we have is so far from capitalism it beggars belief. If anything it’s closer to a form of perverted communism, whereby the wealth is shared only by those who already have it. We live in a neo-feudal age, whereby there IS no working or middle class or even upper class, we are all the same, we pay extortionate amount of taxes to live adequately. There IS no left and right anymore it’s all irrelevant. The only people who matter are those who have to slave for their living, and those who avoid any law, ie corporations.

    The whole joke about the 99% thing, is that the figure is entirely wrong. It’s more like 99.9999 Percent. 99 percent implies that 1 in a hundred people have power or wealth. (I know more than 100 people, and noone I know has billions of pounds)

    I think some people forget how much money some people have, we shouldn’t worry about those who get millions, there are people out there who are earning Billions a year. A quick look at the forbes rich list should give a bit of an overview http://www.forbes.com/wealth/billionaires/list

    I remember i saw some trashy mtv style documentary not too long ago which was like “cribs” but for bankers, that showed off their lifestyle and islands and beds made of gold. Showing off that some individuals earned sums like $4 BILLION dollars a year. HOW IS THAT DEMOCRATIC? how is that a “free” market? it’s not.

    Banks are a cartel, operating illegaly, and governments have no power to do anything. The people are now starting to wake up but they still have sleep in their eyes, it’s not until they see the real light of day, they will understand the gravity of the situation. We need to turn our anger into something productive, and stick together as the majority

     
  36. Why don’t you intolerable morons just bugger off home?

    Don’t you have jobs to go to? And – if not – perhaps that’s where you should focus your efforts.

     
    • I would be interested in saying the fate of comments like these…whilst hardly constructive, I am struck by how few dissenting voices are shown on here, compared to elsewhere on the net.

       
  37. *seeing dammit.

     
  38. Establish an alternative occupation location first.
    Then move everyone.
    Go for one of the lesser known hedge funds…

     
  39. I don’t have an ounce of sympathy for the Established Church &,despite early misgivings(which,I admit,were considerable!),I support the occupation 100%(went up from Poole saturday & going back for a couple of days next week),but we do need to be very very careful in how we are percieved by the public at large.They, just as much as we,are the 99% & for decades they have been pumped full of pro-free market propaganda.It will take very little for them to be turned against us,so,like our brothers & sisters in NY we have to be very nimble & far-sighted in how we respond to situations like this.Yes,the militant revolutionary in me yearns to say ‘f-ck the church & it’s big-money capitalist cronies’-but will that approach advance our cause in the long run?
    I would advise anyone currently at the occupation to try & get hold of a copy of Monday or Tuesday’s Guardian.In it there is a hugely supportive article,which nevertheless questions the rationale of setting up the camp in St Pauls Square.The writer mentions two or three other locations in the City,sorry I can’t recall any of them,which are just as high profile, just as associated with our enemy in this struggle, that would be a better place for the location of the camp.He also stressed that these would be very difficult locations from which we could be evicted(none of them were parks).
    If we are to have any chance at all of victory in this battle against a well-entrenched,expierienced,unbelievably well-financed opponent,we need to be hard yes,committed yes,united yes-but, above all, we must be smart & flexible, able to respond with wisdom, calm & creativitity to every little obstacle that they put in our way. They are evil,but they are NOT stupid,let’s not give them any easy victories!
    It would NOT be a defeat to re-locate the camp one week into a protest that we expect to last for months,egos mustn’t come into it,we MUST win!!

     
  40. Just a bunch of Richie-from-the-Young-Ones clones spouting half-baked sixth form Trotskyism at each other. They don’t represent a ‘silent majority’; they don’t even represent the working class because, guess what, they’re mostly at work. Cold weather’s coming: soon this lot will just piss off back to Surrey and tell revolutionary war stories to help them get laid.

     
    • While you will be chucked on the scrapheap in the next wave of layoffs and no one will give a shit. You people are like turkeys voting for christmas..

       
    • if you think the working class are ‘guess what… mostly at work’ you’re obviously in cloud cuckoo land cos you aint in England in 2011!!!

       
  41. Total support for what you are doing and:

    1. Would urge you to stay clear about your objectives – the clearer the better. Potential ‘add-on’ issues are all ultimately the result of the core issue of fundamental inequality anyway – so suggest you stay away from complex specific campaigns right now and stay on message – will increase your support from the public they are already behind you.

    2. It might be advisable to keep a check on the Livestream – I understand and support the need for horizontal decision making and everyone having a voice – crucial – but checked in several times last night to find a cast of characters that imho did not do the cause any favours – drunk and mouthing off about inanities / indulging in pure self-promotion / long series of expletives a propos of nothing in particular – when I pointed out that Melbourne OWS was at that moment getting forcibly evicted there was no response at all – it’s a global livestream……people checking in from all over to keep up with what’s going on – pretty shameful show given what’s recently gone on in other parts of the world . If I didn’t know the rest of the story I would have had a hard time believing OccupyLSX stood for anything at all.

    3. If you can’t expand in that location then you will need to move – this has to get much bigger in order to push back the way it needs to.

    Hold your ground be it at St Paul’s or anywhere else. Thanks for what you’re doing.

     
  42. I absolutely agree with Adam.

    I would urge you to move asap. This situation is very difficult and it is polarising people and turning people against the movement. Please concentrate on the things that brought us together, standing against corruption and corporate greed, and the infiltration of that greed into the political system.

    Staying at St pauls could potentially end with this becoming a religious debate, which is the worst idea in the world if you ask me. Concentrating on banks and corporations and government legislation is better.

    The media can easily spin this to make the mass of the 99% against you, if that happens then you will loose all credibility to speak for the 99%. I fully sympathise with the difficulty of protesting in London, but the difference between leaving of your own accord to a different site and being forced off by police after the court order is issued is night and day.

    If you left of your own accord you would be in a much better place to come out as a winner in the press,

    It is now being portrayed as the horrible hippies that are interfering with other’s rights of worship while demanding that their rights be heard, and using an icon for their own ends against the wishes of the church and I fear soon the majority of the population.

    If you leave soon, for instance on Saturday as was suggested, then you will be the poor working people that are standing up for the rights of everyone, the hungry and the needy, being turned away by the church. If they wouldn’t let you set up another without a fight (you would eventually win that one) then in the press its all over the media that the police are ignoring your right to protest…. I know what I think is more sensible to be seen as.

     
    • I agree, take the upper hand by showing the media how the church that is run by the very people responsible for the massive financial balance that has ruined this country for everyone is turning away the honest and caring people in favour of protecting the interests of the rich.

      The success of wall street is partly due to their occupation being in a park which is a comfortable place accessible to all. I Suggest a mass march through london to a venue with public toilets and enough space for 1000 tents rather than trying to squeeze everyone into St Pauls.

      I would really love to see the media report the fact that it is the money men pulling the strings of St Pauls but I doubt it will happen. Perhaps a stronger official statement to all media outlets might help get this out.

      I am so angry about this underhand technique, just wish I knew how to get the media to tell the truth :-/

       
      • I say, use their own biased media reporting against them ^.^ . They like to paint us all as un-educated, lets prove them wrong shall we?

         
  43. SHAME ON YOU OCCUPIERS. Some of the 99% you claim we are, well we don’t agree with you or your actions. I am now in more support of the 1% than before you started.

     
    • Isn’t there an episode of Strictly you should be watching? Don’t worry, one day soon the real world is going to come crashing through into your living room. It doesn’t matter how you feel about the 1% they don’t give a shit about you, even though like a good useful idiot you are doing their work for them. Like a sheep who thinks it’s a sheep dog.. baah

       
      • Why must you insult Leo, can’t you make a point with out insult. Oh thats right you don’t really have a point to make. That’s the whole problem with Occupy LSX in a nutshell.

         
  44. Closing St Pauls is a cheap stunt by the bankers who run it to try and win some favor in the media and it just goes to show they are getting scared. I personally don’t want to see the protest moved but I do feel it is important to keep the media on-side and the media can turn on you in an instant if they think it will get more ratings.

    It might be worth bearing in mind that the wall street protest is based in a park that is quite a distance from the wall street itself but that has not affected the success. If anything it has helped. In order for the movement to grow it may help to move it to one of the parks where there is scope to expand the facilities such as the university, library, kitchen etc. That way it will make it more accessible to the everyday people who want to attend that are not as hardcore as those of us who are willing to sleep on concrete if it gets things moving.

    The Biggest battle starts now. The success of this movement will depend on whether it can grow or stagnate!

     
  45. The London protests will be more successful in the long-run if the camp is moved quickly and without any fuss. It might feel like a surrender but it would in fact be a clever -and very short-term – tactical withdrawal. Enemies of the protests would like nothing better than for the media to be able to paint this as a protesters v. the Church/the interests of a building of great national and historic significance circus .

    Don’t let pride allow you fall into a trap. The site is not the most important thing, and as many others above have said it is in many ways not a great site anyhow.

     
  46. The Church doesn’t enter into dialog with the group. Just closes.

    Smells like a rat.

     
    • a rat wot ratted…

       
  47. Dear Sally
    Yes, things are hard for everyone, “rich and poor” as you put it, which we could say leaves the 1% of the super rich having a good old time of it I guess. Hmmm… you see, this is what the protest is actually all about. The hard time given to us by the system that we support with our own hard work… well 99% of us at least… You would prefer things not to be so hard for people I presume? Yes?… Well, nothing shameful in that… is there?

     
  48. As a Priest of the Church, I am sorry. I am humiliated, embarrassed , And weep before God that you have not been received, not “like” Christ, but AS Christ, Christ and his followers looking for a place of true Rest which he promises through this same Church. Christ IS with YOU however, and now that has been made manifest in you by that same Church’s action. Yet again we turn Christ away. Keep up your Gospel of freedom from slavery!

    Joel Watson

     
    • it certainly does seem to say more about what’s really going on at the Cathedral than about ‘Occupy’ – I was pretty shocked at the list of trustees….

      St Pauls Trustees:

      Chairman
      Sir John Stuttard PWC partner, Former Lord Mayor of London.

      Trustees
      The Right Reverend Graeme Knowles, Dean of St Paul’s
      Dame Helen Alexander DBE Deputy chair of the CBI, director of Centrica plc
      Lord Blair of Boughton Former Metropolitan Police Commissioner
      Roger Gifford Investment banker, big in City of London
      John Harvey – Not clearly identified
      Joyce Hytner OBE – Theatre director
      Gavin Ralston Global Head of Product and leading international asset manager at Schroder Investment Management
      Carol Sergeant CBE – Chief Risk Director at Lloyds TSB, formerly Managing Director for Regulatory Process and Risk at the FSA
      John Spence OBE – Former Managing Director, Business Banking, LloydsTSB

      Here’s some more about who they are:
      (courtesy of:
      http://itsallkickingoff.posterous.com/99-problems-but-the-rich-aint-one)

      The St Paul’s Foundation board includes a former Lord Mayor of the City and former partner at PwC (the auditors who failed to foresee the risks at Northern Rock), the deputy president of the CBI and former Chief Executive of the Economist, the Chairman of the Association of Foreign Banks, the former risk regulator at the FSA and former chief risk director at Lloyds TSB during the banking crash in 2008, and Lord Ian Blair the former commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Service. All that’s missing for a full house are an MP with a duck pond, and a News International Executive or two.

      .talk about vested interest – truly one cannot serve God and mammon!

       
  49. Why not get in touch with the Bishop and ask him to remove his cathedra or CEO chair or thronos out of the cathedral and be seated WITH you all!? Then it would no longer BE a cathedral, just a big old church whose Pastor is seeking his other sheep? God keep you guys in His/Her Peace and Justice!

     
  50. From full support from the whole country to having to question the Church’s decisions publicly and what is being presented by the media as the protesters turning on the institution that prevented the large Police presence in the first place… regain the initiative and move to a command land park, make the camp bigger, get work shops set up to educate people of the 2 main goals you have.

    Do not dilute your efforts down and do not let anyone else steal a march on you in the media. Have presence at St Pauls when it opens, but only small, it WILL become part of the tourist attraction, they WILL want to know, WILL want to show support and WILL keep you in good media coverage.

    Argue with what 71.6% of the UK population have an affinity with and your taking the wrong road.

    I implore you to regain the initiative, move the majority of the camp to a Common Land park and have workshops / educational tents at St Pauls and other places where the massing public will be.

     
  51. I would like to say thank you to you all for doing this. For people like me, who have been subjected to harm for years, due to the ‘business’ model that has occurred within services, during the last government and now this new government about to finish it off, this is like our last hope. Many people around the world are committing suicide and also dying due to unable to afford heating.

    I had tried on my own to express things and ended up exposing political malpractise in my area, which was in the media. I am now being ‘outed’ like I am one of their political party members that did not conform, but I am a vulnerable adult and so they could actually kill me with their gang-like need to keep me silenced. Just in case you are reading this. Unfortunately what I exposed was attached to a police concept and I have been left by the police to be subjected to harm.

    I find it so intreguing that their actions have shown me that they feared me (a vulnerable adult), due that I was not fearful to stand up and point at what people would ever say out loud. I am proud to have done it, even though it nearly killed me and still could kill me.

    I came down this week to have a look and listened to a meeting and it is a comfort to me that you are doing this. It is a real shame that the church cannot accommodate you anymore, but you need to move. Leave them bunches of flowers and say who they have helped by allowing you to stay as long as they did. Then move to the next point. Do the same again, and again, when you get moved on, or something similar, show you appreciate their hospitality and identify the cause by displaying it.

    They all fear you, because you are showing power and so will try everything to dismantle you. They will use the police (even perhaps undercover) and also any other source to discredit you. Make sure you are one step ahead. Don’t use violence, physically or verbally. You will always be watched for any excuse. You now need to think how you are going to react to this kind of thing and keep to it.

    I would not be able to occupy or be part of the main movement, but I will come down a visit when I can. What you are doing is a ‘need’. Only the hard to reach and the hidden lives of society will ever know the true harm their actions are doing.

    The people that are against this are people that do not have true understanding of how much this country has been changing. Don’t let it be too late. You are hope to some of us that can never gain a strong voice.

    I love you all and proud to be a supporter – but please keep it peaceful.

    Personally, I will never trust again.

     
  52. Graeme Knowles’ arguments do not wash. Following along from ‘wash’ should lead any Christian, indeed anyone who knows Christian stories, to a quite uncomfortable meditation on Pontius Pilate – also quite a well fed man as I understand.

     
    • Indeed –

      that statement did have rather an abnegating of responsibility kind of flavour

      appeasement also springs to mind

       
  53. Dear Occupiers,

    Thank you for being there; thank you for putting up with the cold, the discomfort, the lack of sleep, the flak/abuse etc. Many people are grateful to you for doing on their behalf what they cannot do themselves.

    My opinion on your ‘next move’ is that I have NO opinion for this is essentially YOUR decision.

    Please don’t be harried by any one – the people on the ground are in the best position to discern how to proceed – YOU, THE OCCUPIERS, are the ones who will know – trust the process and don’t be panicked

    with love xxxx

     
  54. Oh and PS – I think your statement is ABSOLUTELY FINE – sounds completely transparent to me – straightforward and honest – xxxx

     
  55. I’m just an ol’ gal that lives in Ft Worth, TX, USA and a happy fellow Occupier. What makes me sad about your church story there is that it is similar to ours. Churches now seem to portray that money is more important than worshipping. In “Cowtown” (Fort Worth) there are lovely churches downtown in which to worship…but parking is $5.00 for the first 2 hours, up to $12.00 a day in some areas. There is an actual sign in front of one church that says “PARKING FOR CHURCH BUSINESS ONLY.” Business (dollars) but not prayer. Hmm. Public transportation is no cheaper. Tell me, is that really what worshipping now means to churches? Pay to pray? Will I go to church in my little city next week and be expected to pay for my vehicle to occupy a parking space there, too?

     
  56. Good morning.
    Just a final point.
    The child that got run over in china, which 18 people passed by.

    We should be grieving for the loss of morality and compassion in our world, which the people of china has said in their case is due to their government focusing on building their economic empire, which you could probably see similar in every country.

    I know I am grieving for this loss. It is time for change. I will support and be with you whenever my health allows, if not in body, I will be in spirit.

    I thank St Pauls for their hospitality that gave an opportunity to give the message. It is not the end of the message. It is only the beginning.

    Peace. 🙂

     
  57. St Paul’s website says it’s open today.
    Why don’t you propose a motion to camp opposite Parliament – at least there is grass there?
    Or – and this might just work – propose a motion to start selected Bible readings at the camp (money lenders and temples springs to mind) and shame the clergy into letting you stay AND actively supporting Occupy?

     
    • How about: “Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy”. Think about it in the bigger context of what this whole protest is about!

       
  58. http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2011/10/21/lets-name-those-who-decided-to-move-occupylondon-on-from-st-pauls/

    To all those who have doubts about crossing the path of the church – and to everyone there today – before you take the decision to move read this! It will show you who actually is deciding you have to move!
    Banks and big business control the church too!

     
  59. the camp should move to the green space south of St Paul’s near the City Information Centre between Cannon Street and Carter Lane and to across the road from there where the park with fountain is to the south-east of St Paul’s – larger spaces, same exposure, no obstruction

     
  60. THe mic on the life feed sounds like it is in a tornado–REALLY needs a wind screen when you are interviewing people…

    good work!

     
  61. Can’t see the problem actually. Aren’t the protesters following the example of Jesus when he threw the money lenders out of the Temple?

    (Only just discovered how to comment so posted this as an answer to someone else’s comment – sorry!).

     
  62. Mic check, mic check,,,

    Good work so far, 1st an easy undefended church. Why not a children’s hospital or old folks home next – i’m sure they get bankers to fund them as well. That way we can even less public support,,, that is the idea, right!!

     
  63. the queen has a big garden at bucks palace, giver her a ring and ask if you can stay there ?

     
  64. for gods sake! what would jesus have done? there is no doubt he would be turning the tables and eating bread and fish sarnies at the cafe……god isnt in the churches or temples, he is everyone in each breathe of life, the only profit is life! x

     
  65. I went down last night to St Paul’s and was deeply impressed. Everything is clean and well organised. I love the praying-space tent and was reminded of the crowds following Jesus and learning about a totally new way to look at life. What’s happening is counter-cultural and I am sure Jesus would have approved of it; he appreciated truth, love and integrity wherever it came from. Thank you all for being there when so many of us cannot be. Love and peace

     
  66. The Church was not the intended target surely? We can debate if this is about money or not for sure. But the debate is a distraction. St Paul’s is suffering. The Bankers and/or other INTENDED targets are not at all. If the target is the established Church then create a strategy and an arguement and target accordingly. At the moment their PR is doing a good job of undermining your cause by a clever act of distraction

     

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