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Occupy London to respond to Ed Miliband’s article in Sunday’s Observer

 

Occupy London welcomes Ed Miliband’s recognition that we have something important to add to the conversation about how we can make this country a better, fairer place – just as we would welcome the support of anyone else.

Writing in this Sunday’s Observer, Miliband comments: “The challenge is that they reflect a crisis of concern for millions of people about the biggest issue of our time: the gap between their values and the way our country is run.” Check out the front page of the paper and this article.

Occupy London’s formal response will be discussed and debated by our General Assemblies, which will take place at 1pm and 7pm tomorrow at St Paul’s Churchyard. All are welcome to join in this discussion whether your viewpoint is from the left, right or neither.

Further events at Occupy London tomorrow include:

  • 11am Tent City University at St Paul’s – ‘Reflections: a media perspective’ – Three weeks into the occupation, deputy comment editor of the Guardian, Libby Brooks and special correspondent Audrey Gillan review mainstream media coverage of the occupation, reflecting on the challenges the movement faces in terms of courting positive media attention as well as the challenges the media face in reporting about a networked global movement that operates in an unorthodox way and cannot be defined in simple soundbites. There will also be other invited journalists
  • 1pm – General assembly – This is the forum through which members of the camp update the rest of the camp, make decisions through consensus voting. Members of the public are welcome to get involved
  • 2pm – 5pm – Cut cut copy shop for a new wor(l)d order at TCU – Delaina Haslam and Vyvian Raoul encourage word fans to come down and take part in this conceptual writing experiment. Conceptual writing is the art of taking that which has been written before – whether a paragraph, a sentence or a word – and creating something new out of it. Bring: a text of your choice connected in some way to OccupyLSX or the larger occupy movement
  • 2.30 – 4pm – Brian Leslie – financial reform (TCU)
  • 4pm – 6pm – The Corporate Governance of the Square Mile. John Christensen, Anthea Lawson and Rev. Taylor at TCU – John Christensen (Director of the Tax Justice Network), Anthea Lawson (Senior Investigator for Global Witness) and Rev. Taylor (formerly seated on the council for the Square Mile) will be talking about the governance of the Square Mile in terms of its corporate ties.
  • 5pm – 7pm Spanish political parties with the 15M Spanish movement at Finsbury Square
  • 7pm – General Assembly focusing on political discussion
  • 9-11.30pm – Cinema InTents: Z (1069) plus Death Of The Revolution (TCU)
 

70 Responses to “Occupy London to respond to Ed Miliband’s article in Sunday’s Observer”

  1. The best education money can’t buy

     
  2. Ed Miliband’s article should be seen for what it is – a feeble, late attempt to support an uprising that has grown stronger day by day. An uprising he spurned in its infancy; the hypocrisy is laughable. It is this duplicity and false integrity that gives the Occupy movement its strength.

     
    • I agree. He took his time to find a way not to displease his Masters, the 1%.

       
  3. From the Ed Miliband article:

    So, instead of proceeding with tax cuts for the banks as the government plans to do, we should use that money to cut the maximum tuition fee from £9,000 to £6,000.

    Miliband is being disingenuous. “Tax cuts for the banks” is actually cuts in corporation tax for all industries, not just banks. Regarding the tuition fees, he would only double the maximum, not triple them – cuts don’t come into it because the increase hasn’t happened yet.

     
  4. The link to the article is broken

     
  5. Completely disingenuous from ed m – not wholly unwelcome but must be consistent over time instead of reeking of bandwagon.hard for labour to shed the skins of deregulation she their refusal to introduce solid tax changes over bonuses when giving bankers our money.

     
    • Not to mention the millions the leaders like Blair and Mandelson et al are now magically worth. They’re worse than any bankers as at least bankers aren’t hypocrites.

       
  6. Ed Miliband is miles behind the game, proposing a few minor changes and failing to recognise that what is needed is systemic change. Either he doesn’t get it, or he thinks it is impossible to get broad support for a more radical agenda. Either way, he becomes irrelevant.

     
  7. “Miliband says this moment in time is similar to 1945, 1979 and 1997”

    Remind me again how his party changed things in 1997. This is political posturing at it’s worst.

     
  8. Donations: What about a husky sledge? Anyone out there who can bring a husky sledge down to St Paul’s? Perhaps that will be the only way for Callmedave to turn up to tell us what he pretend to thinK?

     
  9. Wikileaks – Master Card, Visa Card, Paypal. FSA
    “Visa Europe declined to discuss the meeting, but a spokesman said: ‘When a merchant wants to accept Visa payments, it must abide by our regulations and also the applicable laws in the country or countries where the cardholder and merchant are based”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058141/WikiLeaks-bids-end-credit-card-ban-start-sending-confidential-documents-again.html

    Since When we have Visa Card, Master card or Paypal writing Regulations? This is the job of the Parliament. Then again, these financial institutions have corrupted our politicians and silenced our Courts, it is almost impossible for an individual to challenge any of these large banks or financial institutions through the Courts filled with puppet judges.

    Paypal has moved itself from London to the tax haven of Luxemburg and has hardly payed any tax since, in the UK. Its phones are answered by employees in Philippines and Dublin. The Regulator, FSA’s staff are fast to tell people who complain that FSA is not funded by the tax payers, it is funded by the banks and institutions license fees.

    Luxemburg is part of the EEC and with many of Europe’s top 1% interest based there. The 1% has used its financial muscles to corrupt the EEC functions; many of the employees of these banks etc are family members of the EEC officials. Hence no chance for you to challenge Paypal in Luxemburg or Brussels either.

    Paypal is part of Ebay and combined dominated the market in internet shopping market. Now its conduct ( conspired with Master Card and Visa Card) towards Wikileaks and their arrogant comments reported above, suggests these Financial institutions are showing their true colors – they are making their own Regulations and smashing down anyone from the 99% if there is any whiff of possible challenge to their control of the world. This is done with the full knowledge that they have the politicians and the Courts in their deep pockets.

    FSA’s response after the huge loss to British consumers through the bankruptcy of the Icelandic Bank which was licensed by FSA via EEC passport, is a template for its inaction against Paypal. FSA employees are using the Regulator as a career spring board for substantially higher paid job offers in the banks and financial companies, especially from those that they were investigating against complaints from the customers. FSA is a charade.

    Then again what can you expect when Andrew Tyrie, the Chairman of the Commons Treasury committee is behaving more like a lobbyist for the Banks than an elected representative of the people?

     
    • “Since When we have Visa Card, Master card or Paypal writing Regulations?”

      Financial institutions seem to have completely forgotten that they are there to provide the public a service and that they actually have no authority over us.

      This week my father in law withdrew 21K of savings from Barclays bank because he is afraid that the euro-crisis will trigger a financial collapse and that he then will not be able to access his hard-earned money. He then found that the debit card for his Barclays current account had been stopped. When he visited his branch to find out why they demanded an explanation as to why he had withdrawn his money. He told them in no uncertain terms where they could stuff their explanation.

      Shocking.

       
  10. G20 & the Market

    Market is more powerful than these leaders. If the Market does not come forward to be a party of those who are looking for solutions, these leaders will have to depend on increasingly militarized police to protect the anonymous Market.

     
  11. Ed Miliband is part of the 1%, as you call them.

     
    • Since he became leader his party has become more Moribund than Miliband !!! The labour leadership election itself shows a clique who were willing to disregard the wishes of grass roots followers in order to install their “vision” of what the party should look like.
      As a result labour have lost a credibility until such time as Moribund is replaced by a genuine labour party leader.

       
      • Even if we had a genuine Labour leader my personal opinion is that our political system is corrupted beyond redemption.

        Politicians are unaccountable for manifesto pledges and we are still somehow supposed to believe that we live in a democracy.

        In my honest opinion the future lies in our building an alternative, truly democratic model of society. If we allow ourselves to be co-opted and accept “crumbs from the table” we doom ourselves and our children to relive the same nightmares even if things do seem to improve in the short term.

         
        • Rich,
          I am at least 99% with you. I jest, but totally agree.

          No posts please about me contradicting myself, just concentrate on on what Rich posted,

          SIMPLY RIGHT.

           
  12. I was there yesterday and I must say the media are portraying the protest to be something it isn’t. The first thing that struck me though was the diversity of the people involved. The media had led me to believe that the Occupy London movement consisted mostly of jobless hippies and tag-a-longs, growing in size only due to the homeless seeking refuge and free food. This is not the case. Of course there are the usual covertly upper class unwashed lot with matted dreads bopping about, and I did see some nutter sat cross-legged on the ground chiming a bell whilst wearing what looked like a rug. But the majority of people are genuinely interested in removing the boot from our faces, whether they fully understand what capitalism even is or not, there’s a sense of solidarity that I have never felt in such force.

    I’ll be happily writing a more truthful article on the protest asap.

     
    • Thanks, Jake. This lazy “anti-capitalist” label of the media is so last month, you know?

       
      • Had a couple of ‘pops’ at the BBC couple of weeks back for same thing on all their news programmes. Told them they were biasing the movement by constantly labeling it as ‘anti-capitalist, and that this was not independent broadcasting.

        Well knock me down with a feather, they seem on the whole to have ceased, their latest label is ‘the protesters’

         
        • Yes, I noticed that, but “anti-capitalist” is still thrown around elsewhere.

           
    • nice 1 jake.the media do not represent us in a good light.others need to know the truth.thanks.we are all the 99%

       
      • The “media ” has existed for some time, obviously they will not back this 99% thing since they expect to see failure “by Christmas”. Do you think that you will hold a unified front in six weeks time ????

         
        • Are you talking about the red tops, or are you talking about other media?

           
    • Hi Jake

      I think that it is good that you’ve been able to get down there, see things with your own eyes, and make your mind up about Occupy St. Pauls. However, there are those people like me who live too far away and have other commitments, and therefore we cannot be there and rely on this website for information. Whether you agree with what the protest is doing or not, there is interest in what it is all about however I can’t help but feel left in the dark around the General Assembly, being the driver for what this organisation is about and where it is going simply because Occupy, with two redacted exceptions, doesn’t publish the minutes for them. There is also the lack of transparency around what happens with financial contributions to Occupy, particularly cash donations. It would certainly make for an interesting article to cover not only your perception on the day but also those areas for improvement and ways they could take this forward – what do you think?

      Cheers,
      Jim

       
      • Perhaps the movement needs more help on these matters.
        I do not see them as a financially profiteering outfit, dis-organised maybe, but not cynical. Perhaps this movement has become bigger than they can cope with without more hands on support ?

        @ Jim,
        valid points from you, even if I am one of the most cynical in world.

         
      • ” I can’t help but feel left in the dark around the General Assembly”
        I share your feelings but remember the GA at LSX only speaks for the GA at LSX. It does not speak for the Occupation at Finsbury Sq or Glasgow or the Isle of White. The Movement is barely 3 weeks old in this country. Alas in this modern world we want solutions yesterday. Give it time, give it space. Remember Gandhi-ji took a lifetime! There are lots of minutes here https://occupywiki.org.uk/London which give you an idea of the complexities in building a movement based in tents!

        I understand your worries concerning finances however I am prepared to give the LSXers the benefit of the doubt. I understand that their monies are being banked with the co-op bank and that they will have chosen members to act as cosignatories. The GA’s that I have attended: hear from the finance working group. And major expenditure is arrived at by Consensus. Remember the Movement is based on pointing out financial malfeasance. They may make a few mistakes but will learn from them. Unlike certain Political parties and multinational corporations!

         
        • Yes, I was thinking of the Mahatma recently. Britain had an empire and, with all due respect to the leaders at the time of the countries which gained independence, I don’t, and I suspect many other people don’t, remember many of those leaders. We remember George Washington, of course, but few others.

          Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi we do remember. Far more than remembering him, we revere him! What a victory, such a victory, to have your former oppressors love you!

           
      • Hi Jim,

        I honestly can’t say I got into the nitty gritty of where the donations actually go, but I can tell you that from what I saw there, things like constant recycling, a full media tent, effectively a canteen with cooks and shelves, a music tent and many other good things, that the money is most likely being put back into the well being of the encampment.

         
  13. Nothing new here from Ed, but kind of him to remind us he knows best.

    For anyone wishing to move beyond the Westminster kindergarten, I can recommend attending a) the Tent City University for detailed knowledge and education; b) the Occupy working groups for immediate involvement in a process that has been misrepresented as a protest; c) the General Assemblies for participatory democracy conducted in an adult rather than adversarial manner.

    I suggest Ed pops along and offers to wash up in the camp kitchen. He may be surprised how cleansing and cathartic it is to do some real work alongside other ordinary folk.

    On the washing-up experience : http://marcusmoore.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/occupying-the-mind-5/

    On the new paradigms emerging from the Occupy movement : http://marcusmoore.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/occupying-the-mind-7/

     
  14. I wish to share something with you all.
    I have been enlightened today via media and yesterday’s guest speakers and yesterday’s march, why I am and have been kept hidden from society in such a harmful way. It’s political. Shame on you politicians; and press. You nearly killed me via your efforts to hide the truth. What I will say to you, because you will be reading this, I am not fearful anymore, because I now know that you fear me, because I will say what I feel and will always do so. Arrest me for it if you want to, using your conditioned political policing to do so. I will just see it as part of my destiny to see the full picture, because I believe, in God’s eyes, nothing is seen as criminal, when the message is peaceful and is a message of importance, which mine has been. This last year has been very interesting. I have seen a true dark side of politics, press and policing. Little old me, on my own, being isolated from society for political gain.

    What I will say here and I think occupy know, is don’t trust politicians, nor the media that attach themselves to particular political parties. Their behaviours are still the problem.

    It is good they are acknowledging their failures, but believe me, it will be in a calculated way. Until action and true change is seen and your purpose is achieved, be careful. Don’t get sucked into their spin. What has happened to me, as a vulnerable adult, I see is happening to you, as a movement. I was alone in my case, make sure you protect each other, because they fear you. I will talk to someone at the camp a bit more about this and hope I can be directed to someone who is trustworthy.

    You can officially say I am part of the Occupy movement. I might not be able to physically do much as yet, but I can provide information and will be very happy to do so.

    Bless you all, I hope you will support me in trying to be part of it. I feel I now have a duty to try. I will do what Saint Paul states he did and that is, although he was physically weak, he always attributed his staying power to the power of God’s will, so all my suffering has a true purpose. So even with so much adverse experiences, I feel that this was meant to happen. To gain the wisdom to help the occupy movement to achieve, as part of my own destiny.

    Thanks to all my enemies. You have given me the wisdom. I bless you for this, because it is what is making this movement powerful. I think you know this is unstoppable now. What we see is the change we need to see. Build it and it will come. WE are on our way. The BEGINNING is nigh. 😀

     
    • Thats the spirit! 😉

       
    • Blessings to you too, my friend.

       
    • I am so glad that yesterday was inspiring for you, did you speak at the GA? It was an inspirational day for me also as I met a man from Barcelona who was involved in the walk to Brussels. He spoke to me at length about the movement in Spain and how it is so big that they now have assemblies in communities and neighbourhoods.
      As much as the media are still capable of putting doubt in my mind, every time I visit St Pauls I meet people who raise my spirits and make me believe that change is truly possible.
      Reading your post was like meeting one of those people.
      Bless you and good luck.

       
      • Hi Rich,
        I do not speak at GAs, I sit and listen and wave my hands when I agree, but am not confident enough to stand up and say anything. I have some learning difficulties and sometimes I have to go home and look up some of the words used (I’m new to campaigning and politics 🙂 ).

        I hope soon I will be able to get more involved. It is very frustrating not to be able to yet, but I am very happy that the majority is on the same ‘st Paul’s hymn sheet’ as me 😉

        I can focus a bit on getting well to hopefully be able to contribute more soon.

         
    • Hi Hidden Member of Society 🙂

      A word of caution ~ keep in mind that it is greed and injustice that the fight is against ~ not people.

       
      • Or rather, I should say ~ its greed and injustice that are the enemy ~ not people.

         
        • Hear hear!

          I too am against unfair and unjust behaviour and action – but not the people who are carrying them out.

          It’s an important distinction to make.

           
          • It is right that the behaviour is what is our focus to change, but it would be wrong to Disassociate it completely from the human beings that do the behaviour, because it could stop us and them seeing the full picture to help us and them achieve change.

            Human beings have a choice and may have differing reasons for the choices they make. So I personally will not disassociate the two. It is the people that need to be convinced that their behaviour is inappropriate.

            I also will not treat people like they are a thing, a behaviour, which is the same as what the people, that are seeing their greed as more important than people, are doing; so by attaching the behaviour to them as human beings will hopefully help teach them to start seeing us as human beings.

            But I agree with what you are saying in the context that the emotions WE feel, such as anger, should only be directed towards the behaviour, so we stay in control of our own actions to prevent forms of violence, or retaliation. But you don’t have to detach the behaviour from the person to achieve this.

            Have I made sense? Sorry, it’s a bit long.

             
  15. thanks hidden member of society for sharing that

     
  16. I must look up ‘democracy’ again. This doesn’t feel like how I think ‘democracy’ should feel.

    Could someone better versed in economics explain why we can’t have a retail bank run by the people for the people? (I would like to say run by the government for the people but I am not convinced the political classes know who the people are anymore)

    As opposed to pouring money into failed private institutions and then meekly suggesting they re-invest in the ‘real economy’ (i.e. people who actually do something) but without any real expectation that they do so, why couldn’t we, say, make the Post Office a retail bank? A few advantages I can see: depositors would be guaranteed; it could lend to small businesses; the Post Office would be saved overnight. More importantly, could we then not just transfer all the depositors from the likes of RBS to ‘The People’s bank’, thereby guaranteeing deposits and letting a failed private institution get on with the business of going bankrupt? And do the same with any other idiotic bank who goes bankrupt? Or am I missing a point? Of course: our democratic leaders have decided that the wealthy who invest with these ‘casino banks’ can’t possibly lose any of their investment! There was me thinking an investment was a risk, hence the profit element. Silly me!

     
  17. Oxford Dictionary

    Democracy:
    1) Government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them (as in the small republics of antiquity) or by officers elected by them. In mod. use often more vaguely denoting a social state in which all have equal rights, without hereditary or arbitrary differences of rank or privilege.

    So why do I feel so utterly hopeless and unrepresented? Why are people ridiculed, arrested etc. for expressing themselves….

     
    • Interesting, the last part of this definition about hereditary or arbitrary differences of rank or privilege. I have long felt that the fact that our children cannot aspire to be elected head of state has an insidious effect on our culture as a whole. Also the fact that we still have an unelected upper house.

      And then we come to the fact that the “representatives” we do get to elect every four or five years have taken it upon themselves to represent business interests above the interests of the people.

      I too feel unrepresented but no longer completely hopeless. Through this movement I have seen glimpses of a new society that could be built through self-organisation to supplant these corrupt old institutions. It would be a long, hard road, difficult and unlikely perhaps but not impossible.

       
      • Be careful what you wish for. The fact that the head of state and the members of the upper house are unelected is quite possibly a virtue. Would you /really/ want them to be elected? For how long — four or eight years? Wouldn’t that encourage short-term thinking?

         
      • Again Rich
        I have to totally agree with you,
        ‘It would be a long, hard road, difficult and unlikely perhaps but not impossible.”

        I am and have h.o.p.e. !

         
        • I should clarify. I didn’t mean that I had lost all hope. What I was trying to express was that this system makes everything seem hopeless. The system can absorb almost anything without changing anything. In many respects it is a quite brilliant system- if you are part of the 1% that is.
          But there is always hope!

           
          • YES h.o.p.e. is here ! 🙂

             
  18. Can someone explain me why “we” (I understand I am included on that “we” as I am a regular member of the assembly, not to count one of the 99%) welcome the support of a lier who represents a party that took us to war and made its “bit” to take us down to the whole where we are currently at? And worst, they did not even look sorry. As a member of the assembly I reject any show of gratitude to this thieves of democracy.

     
    • The word used was “welcomed” which I don’t think implies gratitude which would have more of a subservient implication. I personally think that anything positive from somebody in the public eye, however much we may dislike that person, is useful if it makes anybody in doubt think that maybe we are worthwhile after all. I am undecided on whether or not there should be an ‘official response’ but if there is I think it should make clear that Mr Milliband’s contribution is no more important in real terms than anybody else’s.

      Also, as the movement is non-partisan, then shouldn’t we “welcome” contributions from anybody on equal terms, politician or priest, banker or binman? Let the truth be out in honest debate? A tough job with weasel politico words admittedly…….

      I liked the idea of a truth and reconciliation commission regarding the Corporation of London, would love to see this applied to Parliament also.

       
      • I preferred the views of the lady who stood up at the GA and asked why on earth there would be a “Truth and Reconciliation” commission rather than a “Prosecution” commission…

         
  19. “Occupy London’s formal response will be discussed and debated by our General Assemblies, which will take place at 1pm and 7pm tomorrow at St Paul’s Churchyard.”

    Has this (formal response) been decided by the Process working group or the Press working group?

    If so when?

     
  20. “Political Parties – Division and Exhaustion

    The involvement of left-wing political parties had a twofold effect on the members of the assemblies. On the one hand people who did not belong to any (left-wing) party grew tired of the intra-party discussions that were brought into the assemblies. On the other hand people who had joined the assemblies because they hoped it would lead to a new type of direct democratic politics, got disillusioned as the assemblies increasingly divided along party lines or were used as tools to secure votes in the national elections.”

    http://new-compass.net/news/fall-argentine-assembly-movement

     
  21. Different faces of the same beast.

    Labour/conservative. They are both equally qualified in stripping rights from you the people, they just approach it in different ways is all.

    Can we set some sort of precedent here and f*ck off the whole left/right thing please, its about as pointless a conception as the “genius” who invented the phrase “the human-race”.

    Yeah what you racing towards so quickly? Old-age? Death? Pft. In my humble opinion its a stupid f*cking phrase.

    Left/right is bull-shit.

    -3nd M3ssage-

     
    • The old German green party had a good slogan: “We’re not right or left, we’re in front”. (the future)

      A bit chessy, but maybe expresses what some are trying to say.

       
      • 😀

         
    • >[let’s] f*ck off the whole left/right thing please
      Well said, and while we’re about it, how about we ditch words like ‘marxism’, ‘capitalism’ and ‘socialism’ etc. – at least when describing the future.

      The words may be useful to categorise what happened before but we don’t need them any more, they carry too much baggage and what one person means by them can be quite different to another’s take.

      As an example, many have called me a marxist after I’ve ranted to them awhile, but I reject the label because while some of my views seem to run roughly in parallel with some of the little I know of marxism, it imples all sorts of things about my views that are probably quite wrong and I see no sense in studying it in depth just to decide whether or not I am one.

      So yes, let’s ditch the old labels unless used in a historical context, we need something new that may well take facets from all the old systems, but isn’t any of them.

      Arguably they’ve all been tried and found wanting anyway, apart from a resource-based economy that is… can we try that for 100 years and see how it goes ?

       
      • Bloody marvelously put.
        Needs to be at the start of every debate.
        I think I want a new form of communism, that works , but you cant dare say communism it has been tarnished by bad examples.
        So YES lets lose the labeling. Progress.

         
  22. Once upon a time the was three little pigs. It was election day and they was discussing how they were going to vote. One pig had not bothered to register, so it was not an issue them. “Voting doesn’t make any difference it is rigged the system it is not a level playing field so I’m not giving it any legitimacy by registering.” The other two pigs had taken the time to register but one little pig argued, “They were all as bad as each other and that it was a waste of time and voting only encorouged the politicians.”
    So just one little pig went to the polling booth and duly collected their ballot paper. It showed three candidates; The Wolf, the Wolf in sheep’s clothing and the Lion. The little pig was reluctant to put a cross beside any of them and expressed his dilemma to the presiding election officer. The election officer informed the Pig, he had to vote for one of the three or spoil his vote, by defacing it.
    After giving the matter some thought the little pig decided that he was going to take the vote home as a souvenir. The election Officer said it was against the rules. However, the little pig, reasonably, argued that it was his vote and therefore he could do as he wished with it. The little pig did not wish to give the vote to any of the candidates on the ballot and considered it too precious to deface. Taking it home seemed the better alternative.
    On returning home with the ballot, the other two pigs wished that they had followed their friends exmple. The little pig had performed his public duty by attending the polling booth, without having to vote for a candidate they did not really want.
    The election count that evening was very close. The Wolf in sheep’s clothing had won the count by just one vote from the Wolf and the Lion. Both the Lion and Wolf were complaining. Upon checking they discovered one vote was missing. 1001 attended the polling but only 1000 votes had been counted. The election had to be declared void.
    The election was re-scheduled. This time all three pigs registered to vote and all the pigs attended the polling booth. Each, upon not having a suitable candidate, decided to take their votes home as did their friends and cousins who were similarlry minded. At the election count that evening there was problems with the count that resulted in the election being declared void. The Wolf and the Lion did not live happily ever after.
    Moral of story; Always register to vote and then if you don’t think anyone deserves your vote keep it.

     
  23. Last week you had a visit from Craig Murray, the former ambassador, who gave a talk. He’s now apparently feeling depressed at his reception, per his blog.

    I have ventured to make the following response:

    ‘We all have moments like this, Craig – but as you have been told above, we need people like yourself who can give thoughtful analyses, well-expressed and well-argued.

    I don’t agree with Uzbek by the way. I think that the Occupy movements, together with those who created the Arab Spring and others, could provide sources of ideas for a new way of striving against the united forces of globalisation, which have now clamped their authority on Greece and will no doubt try to do the same elsewhere in Europe and beyond.

    It will need all those groups, plus the ideas of those from whom an opinion has never been sought, in Africa, in the Republics of Central Asia, in China, India, Latin America – all those on whom the globalisation juggernaut is rolling or is about to roll. The globalisation forces have their think-tanks and their organised (sometimes secretive) groupings – it is time for all those who have no vested interest in their rapidly developing stranglehold to take strength from each other and find a forum of debate that is not immediately in the power of media who are complicit in the neo-con, neo-liberal project.

    This is the time when those who want to oppose that project need to debate and formulate the values which they want to see as universal. Each individual human being has a value; each thought has a value – but what we must remember is that one person’s hope may be another’s fear. Only by uniting in debate can we ensure that everyone’s view will be heard, will be counted – will be valued.

    As I have said, I think most of the media – in Britain or elsewhere – are complicit, if not actively promoting, the neo-liberal agenda. I realise that you yourself may feel more ‘at home’ with those organs, but they are not a location from which many of us can draw any hope. I congratulate you on having had the courage to face the St Paul’s Occupy group – probably, if you were to visit them again, you would find that your talk made a positive contribution, and you would be welcome to go on visiting – and debating.

    I would encourage you to return.’

    I hope this is okay with you. The person called Uzbek had made a rather negative remark about your group – so I wanted to reply positively.

    Like many others who are attached to the above website, I value and positively support your campaign – perhaps what I have said above will convince you of that. We have a twitter site #OTMP and would be glad to see any of you there, or at our website.

     
  24. Oh my…

    Goldman Sachs paid 1% tax in 2008, when it made $2.3 billion and paid $10.9 in salaries and bonuses. That does seems a little low: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a6bQVsZS2_18

    And… Bank of America won’t be paying any tax for 2010, but will received a nice juicy $1 billion refund from the government to say ‘thank you’ for… er… I’ve forgotten what for now, but I’m sure it’s jolly important. http://www.thestreet.com/story/11059978/bank-of-america-pays-no-taxes-gets-1b-refund-report.html

    A nice man at Rolling Stone wrote an article about it for Rolling Stone magazine: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025

    It does seem that we’ve got ourselves into a little pickle about this.

     
  25. Dear Occupy LSX

    Did you know that there is a UK band called ” BLAME THE BANKERS” who play a mixture of pop, blues jazz and latin? There were formed about six months ago and if in London will come and play for you:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/blamethebankers

    Good luck and keep it going!

    Des

     
  26. Wow, you people all seriously need to take a chill pill and get a life. Rather than sitting around in a public place saying woe is me, I dont have a job, boo hoo, try doing something a little more constructive. How about some volunteer work for a local charity?
    Now for the serious discussion:

    The majority of people in the area you are occupying, the ones you are also most disrupting, are lower and middle class people just working to support their families. Such as the cleaners, the clerks, assistants, and other support staff. Yes there are some super rich people, but do you really think if you have large scale legal reforms penalising them those people wont just leave and go to another country and take their wealth with them. Once those high earners and their wealth is gone then there would be an associated drop in consumer spending, which will eventually filter down as lost jobs for those in working classes. Unless we are assuming these people just accumulate wealth and never spend it?

    Bear in mind it is also the top 1% of the countries earners that also happen to pay the majority of the tax brought in by HMRC. Yes, a £400,000 a year job sounds like alot, and it is, but lets break that down, over £185,000 is taken in income tax and national insurance. In 2009 the median civil servant income was £22,100, that means that the tax taken from that one high earner is providing 8 jobs. Now, lets assume that person spends £100000 of whats left that year. VAT at 20% on that will provide another job for another civil servant. So not even including hidden taxes like fuel tax, stamp duty, council tax and so on that one high earner is paying enough taxes to give 9 people a job. Not to mention any people that person employs for cleaning, house repair/maintenance etc…

    Do you really think that if you took away those taxes the government could continue to invest in infrastructure and public services, even though years of Labour government has already put us in a serious position of budget defecit. Even if the wealth was ‘redistributed’ to those with lower incomes then higher levels of taxes would need to be paid by everyone in order to get total income from taxes back to the same level.

    Yes some legislation is needed to ensure tax havens used by the wealthy are removed, and also to ensure there is not a repeat of the banking crisis/recession. Just remember that over legislation can also stifle the economy. If you want to instead re-nationalise everything, and redistribute all of the wealth then I think it is going to take a few more people than a little camp outside the stock exchange to persuade everyone to essentially reform to a communist state. If communism is what you want, then fine, I suggest you move to China or Cuba, see how you like it there.

    The world is coming into a challenging era, with massive population growth, climate change and the need to move away from fossil fuels. It is essential that both governments and corporations make investments and commitments to those issues now to prevent an even greater crisis in the future. It is also essential that people work together and make personal choices to help with these issues and to ensure that those who work hard and have the creativity and drive to solve these problems are rewarded.

    If you want my suggestion for something Occupy LSE and other such ‘movements’ could ask for, and would possibly be workable and justified is a legally enforcable requirement for all corporations listed in stock exchanges worldwide to have a sustainabiliy pledge. This should include minimum requirements for reducing reliance on fossil fuels and to expand, grow, and build companies in a way which limits harm to the environment and encourages working with and committing to helping those in their local communities.

    Yours,

    A hard working ‘blue collar’ contractor.

     
    • >Once those high earners and their wealth is gone then there
      >would be an associated drop in consumer spending, which
      >will eventually filter down as lost jobs for those in working classes.
      This is only a problem if the system that is implemented by the eventual consensus is as crazy as the one we have now, i.e. can only survive if people keep buying more and more stuff’.

      Buying food and other essentials is one thing (unless we ditch currency altogether, which I favour) but I hope that our future civilisation will be based more on people doing things and being things rather than just buying things and then wanting another, slightly better version of the same thing a few months later, which seems to be the main focus of life in the UK and way wider at present.

       
    • >This should include minimum requirements for reducing reliance
      >on fossil fuels and to expand, grow, and build companies in a
      >way which limits harm to the environment and encourages
      >working with and committing to helping those in their local
      >communities.
      I’d hope our future civilisation takes environmental and community concerns as priorities 1 though to 17 and only then considers expanding and growinf companies.

      Nobody is all that keen on things like improved productivity and growth and the like apart from the fat cats that don’t have to put in the hard graft to make it so, the vast moajority of people would rather they had more time to spend with their families and friends and hobbies and interests than see a share price go up – assuming they had the basics in life to a sufficient standard, but again, I hope that a decent living for all would be part of the new design, not just those who are ‘successful’.

       
      • Chris,

        With you all the way , life should and can be much simpler to live.
        I have a saying that goes
        “life is too long”

         
  27. Not wishing to disparage what you have said but do you not think saying “Wow, you people all seriously need to take a chill pill and get a life. Rather than sitting around in a public place saying woe is me, I dont have a job, boo hoo…” is just a wee bit patronising when there are almost three million people unemployed?

    I actually agree with some of what you say but not sure we can just ignore the fact that the financial sector has indebted the western world to such a degree that it is all but bankrupt….
    The Emperor was probably always naked 

    And it is not about “boo hoo”, it is about change that will bring some “yay yippee!”. Good lord, the day we (I mean anyone) don’t have to be patronised or talked down to by people associated with the “city” really will be “yippppeeeee!“ That came across a bit harsh. Sorry.

     
    • I should point out that I am not part of the St Pauls movement I just want things to change for the better. Odd, I know.

       
      • Not at all Pat,
        Theres more of us wanting the same as you than you and others may realise.

         
  28. Someone essentially help to make critically posts I’d state. This is the first time I frequented your website page and up to now? I amazed with the research you made to make this actual put up incredible. Fantastic process!

     

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