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Occupy London to mark Remembrance weekend

 

Occupy London – part of the global movement for real democracy aiming to challenge social and economic injustice in the UK and beyond – will join war veterans this Remembrance weekend at St Paul’s Cathedral, to show respect to all those who lost their lives in both World Wars and other conflicts.

“Occupiers, veterans and passersby have been creating hand crafted large poppies which will be displayed throughout the camp as a visual message of respect and reflection. We want to ensure that Occupy London’s response to Remembrance Day is a human response – a response of compassion and awareness,” said Catherine Powell, Occupy London supporter and a member of the Remembrance Day working group. “At the same time, we’ve worked to ensure that activities across the camp coordinate with the Cathedral’s annual events and respect the space for the churchgoers and camp members.”

On Remembrance Day, following the playing of the Last Post, occupiers, veterans and worshippers will together observe the traditional two minutes silence at the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month, marking the ceasefire on the Western Front in WWI, 1918. On Remembrance Sunday (13th November), there will be a 90 minute service in the Cathedral beginning at 10.15am and the two minutes silence will be observed by all.

Occupy London will also have an itinerary of events across the weekend, including music, talks and discussion with speakers from the camp and beyond, plus film showings in Occupy London’s Tent City University. These include the UK premiere of The Welcome, a documentary about veterans healing from post traumatic stress, which will be shown at 9pm on Saturday 12th November. As well as the installation of the large poppies, the camp is also creating a Remembrance wall where people can contribute personal messages, photographs and names as a way of remembering lives lost due to wars.

David Walter, a British Army veteran who is also involved in the Occupy London Remembrance Day working group commented: “We’re aware that for some, the symbol of the poppy – red or white – is a political one. As such, in addition to the poppies we’ve made honouring the traditional remembrance of the reality of the loss of lives in war and the human reasons for us to work together towards peace, we’ve also created paper doves – the traditional symbol of peace. We value the principles of human compassion and reconciliation, and feel that on Remembrance Day and Remembrance Sunday, there are no divisions, only human beings.”

Occupy London’s Remembrance Day working group brings together people from the camps – near the London Stock Exchange just by St Paul’s Cathedral and at Finsbury Square – and comprises a team of veterans and civilians working together through dialogue and consensus decision-making to honour the day respectfully.

 

85 Responses to “Occupy London to mark Remembrance weekend”

  1. Very good move. Not just because it is the right thing to do, not only that vets are a primary victim of cuts being carried out to protect banks after the bailout, but also because the media is promoting yet another set of lies that the Occupy movement does not respect people who served.

     
    • We vets,me gulf war mk 1, fought for your freedom to squat in a churches front yard. We fought for your right to have; I phones, laptops and everything else you own. We fought for your right to be safe. And we are sick of you scumbags messing up our places of worship! Please piss off.
      I won’t ask again.

       
      • I’m not part of the protest but it’s not my understanding that the gulf wars had anything to do with the things you mention.

         
        • Google: Major Smedley Butler

           
      • We have been given the blessing of the church, go argue with them.

         
      • dear al buck.
        the gulf wars had nothing to do with the defense of the right of the ipod to exist. jeebus.

         
      • Buck I am truly amazed at such a nasty reaction toward the occupy groups . I am not sure you grasp the situation for millions of people around the world who are being forced into poverty and homelessness as a direct result of the financial system . My Father served in the Royal Navy and when invalided out did his part as a fire watcher during the blitz. He was raised in poverty in London as a child. Never would he have stooped to rudeness toward others are dare to tell anyone to be grateful to him for fighting just wars !! The wars you fight in are unjust and millions are no longer grateful for the protection of forces fighting wars built on a pack of political lies that serve corporate corruption around the globe. People have great respect for our armed forces and rightly so but, millions have great concern that our troops are put at risk in illegal wars that have NO END. Your verbal rudeness reflects badly on you as an individual and you should be mindful that you also represent our armed forces when you use such attacks. You chose the armed forces, don’t tell anyone to be grateful for your choices, you have taken in your life. If you want to stay fixed in a very limited thought process that excludes the plight of millions being forced into poverty by a small group of very rich and powerful individuals that’s your choice. You have no right to force your choice onto others.

         
      • Al – you speak for the 99%, we’re all in agreement that the people of the tents should leave. Definitely leave St. Paul’s but if they’re so unhappy in the UK I would hope they would leave here too!

         
        • Dill Doe, my nearly converted one !

          You cannot have your cake and it it, that is just not fair.

          How is it ok in your mind for Al to speak for the 99%
          when you so often condemn others for representing the 99% ?
          (even though no-one from what I have seen is claiming to represent anyone other than themselves as being IN the 99% )
          And why have you not given Al a ‘title’ ?, now that you have all by yourself nominated him as spokesman for the 99% ?
          And where is the ‘agreement’ you speak of and are you now accepting you are a part of the 99% re and I quote
          “Al-you speak for the 99%, we’re all in agreement” ?

          Lots of questions I know, take your time, I am in no rush to hear your answers 😉

           
      • ‘Al Buck’ said “We are sick of you scumbags messing up our places of worship! Please piss off. I won’t ask again.”

        The church is open and holding services as per usual, and they are happy for the camp to remain for the time being.

        What is it about the Occupiers that you think makes them ‘scumbags’? I consider their actions to be an earnest attempt to make the world a fairer, happier place for people.

         
        • What is it about the Occupiers that you think makes them ‘scumbags’? – Answer: they’re a bunch of lazy, dirty, extremist hippies who claim to speak for the 99%, even though their camp is only around 200 tents. They have *some* good ideas but are generally misguided in both politics and economics. I agree with Al – you lots should clear off and go protest somewhere else.

           
          • Dlii Doe,
            do us all a favour then, lobby the MPs over in westminster and ask them to make some room for a few people who have got some ideas about making the nation a better place for all to live.
            Warn them its a really RADICAL scheme and they call it……………………………………………..DEMOCRACY.

             
    • Let us not forget.
      I will be remembering all who died, in wars or otherwise.
      True some died because of violence, hatred and ignorance and I pray for their souls too.
      I also pray for All of You Too. I pray for All the People of this World, the Living, the Rich, the Poor, the Downtrodden, the Occupy Movement, the Politicians, the Muslims, Christians, Athiests, EDL, Black, White, Isralies, Palistinians, Workers, Bankers, Students, Police, Protesters, Brothers, Sisters and all the Innocent Children of this World. (If I have missed anyone out and offended anyone I appologise, I pray for you too.
      Please, can’t we just work this out together and stop the killing.
      Peace & Love to You All.x

       
    • It goes to show that the people out there are not so lazy as to just buy a plastic poppy but they actually use fabric which is what they used to do in past generations.

       
      • The Poppy Appeal raised £36 million last year from those “lazy” people that just “bought” their poppies.

         
      • FYI, the “plastic poppies” are produced by veterans.

         
  2. You’d better make sure that you all treat this occasion with the respect it deserves. Failure to do so, will be the end of you!

     
    • What are you up to on Sunday Jocky?

       
      • Jonni, I’ll be paying my repects in my own way, to some very special people. What are your plans?

         
        • No plans as of yet.

           
  3. Hi,

    I’m not sure if you are aware already and i don’t want to cause unnecessary worry but
    I’ve just got off a page that I use to keep tabs on the EDL. It seems that some of them who were planning to fight Muslims Against Crusades (who’s protest is now banned) on friday are now talking about fighting the ‘lefties at st pauls’. Hopefully it’s just bravado but thought i should let you know.

    Keep on keeping on

    Rich x

     
  4. I think you may be doing this already, but could be a good idea to have a wall of giant poppies – hide the tents and a good backdrop for all involved including, of course, the media. Possibly find out from the organisers what they would like to see – poppies and peoples name or something. Just suggest that you want to do something that is befitting for remembrance Sunday. Your detractors will jump on anything that is not seen as being in keeping.

     
    • As happens in all media events and events of this type, perhaps the organisers could be let create their own temporary backdrop to their own liking? As they would do if there were building works going on

       
  5. I think it is a mistake to join in with this commemoration. It would be better to hold an anti-militarist event of some kind than join in with this celebration of what in fact was the slaughter of millions of British, French and German workers by the ruling classes of Europe. The 1914-18 war, which is what Poppy Day original commemtored, was not any a war for any sort of democracy – it was about the capitalists murdering millions of workers in a squabble over which squalid empire would rule the world.

    Poppy Day does not celebrate the victims of the various conflicts imperialist capitalism has dragged working class people into, it celebrates the profiiteers and the nationalist ideologies that they used to fool workers into fighting and dying in their wars for super-profits.

    Why not hold an anti-militarist teach in and open discussion with speakers from the anti-war movements and socialist movements instead?

     
    • Wowwee Red,

      Thats quite heavy, to say the least. Although probably at lot of hard truths in what you say.
      Cant agree with your suggestion tho, there are relatives of those who lost their lives that deserve a day of remembrance do they not, because as you imply they did not fight out of choice ?

      There are another 360+ days of the year when you could protest your anti-war concerns.

       
      • Oh mean to suggest a book called ‘How to win friends and influence people’ (tongue very much in cheek) 😉

         
      • Im sorry i dont agree my friend was killed defusing a bomb, i remmber him well, but if he where not in another country fighting because our goverment sent him there told him to stay and fight the baddies then he would still be alive – he wasn’t even killed defending his home, tradgic. I am VERY thankfull for vets who fought to defend their home all those yrs ago, but that was yrs ago, i think it is wrong to keep on with rememberance day yr in yr out, it only remind/shows how vicious we can be to each other, where is the rememberance day for all tthose killed befor the two great wars??

         
        • “it only remind/shows how vicious we can be to each other”

          That’s the point.

           
      • Now this is strange – I’m actually agreeing with you here Captain!

         
        • You are a secret believer I know 😉
          Keep it up with the learning curve, we have made some good progress today, well done.
          🙂

           
          • Ha ha ha, no no, you’ve got it wrong Colonel. I am not a secret believer. While I agree that planned and controlled financial regulation is needed, I disagree with most of the other nonsense that you lot are doing and preaching. Bring on the day that the tented ones are removed from St. Paul’s – if they find it so bad they should leave the UK!

             
          • Human – Don’t start agreeing with the likes of Dill and me – who is going to be left to put up a reasoned argument for the ‘tented ones’ ? 🙂

             
    • Redscribe:

      “Poppy Day does not celebrate the victims of the various conflicts imperialist capitalism has dragged working class people into, it celebrates the profiiteers and the nationalist ideologies that they used to fool workers into fighting and dying in their wars for super-profits.”

      You have just made this up, it is not true, you have no evidence for it and it is offensive to many. Here is the truth from the poppy appeal organisers.

      “As custodians of Remembrance, The Royal British Legion through the Poppy Appeal, provides ways for commemorating those who are no longer with us.”

       
      • I think you will find this is quite a common understanding of what Poppy Day means, notwithstanding what is in the official blurb for the event. It is why many people refuse to wear the symbol, or wear the white poppy to subvert the militarism implicit in it. It is also why Tories, New Labour and other reactionaries are so ostentatious in insisting on wearing their poppies and in bullying those who decline to do so.

         
    • Occupy doesnt have the capacity to go out on a limb like you (and I) wish. but there are millions in this country fed up with imperialisms impacts on the world.

      good idea would be to draw out connections between colonialism, capitalism and the square mile.

       
    • Remembrance Sunday IS anti-militarist! It has nothing to do with patriotism or celebrating war, it’s a day of mourning for the dead of wars and the futility of war. I have not seen one shred of evidence that shows that Remembrance Sunday or Armistice Day are some sort of national celebration of the First World War.

      “The 1914-18 war, which is what Poppy Day original commemtored, was not any a war for any sort of democracy – it was about the capitalists murdering millions of workers in a squabble over which squalid empire would rule the world.”

      Correct, so it would be rather convenient for the capitalists if commemorating the cost of that was ignored don’t you think? If anything it is a reminder of what nationalism and jingoism cause. The people who are appropriating the poppy for nationalist causes are sick as far as I’m concerned. By the way it’s not called “Poppy Day”, which trivialises it and makes it sound like some horticultural event.

       
    • Redscribe – To me, Remembrance Sunday is a chance for us to pay our respects to all who have died in war. It makes no difference whether or not we believe the war they fought in was right or wrong. For me, and I suspect the majority of the population, the reason behind a war and ‘saluting the flag’ has nothing to do with showing our respects for the dead. I find your comments disrespectful, downright stupid and the quickest way in which to remove any support your ‘movement’ may have gained (though, if this is indeed what your attempting to do, it’s a sick way of doing it). However as you say, you have the right to say what you like, however distasteful others find it, as thankfully, we live in a democracy. I for one am grateful to all those, who have given their lives for that to be the case.
      Its one day of the year put politics, banker or leftie bashing aside and let the majority of people pay their thanks and respects in a way that they see befitting.

       
      • Andy
        and all others reading Reds. post/s

        Do not assume he is THE voice of occupy,

        He is like you and me, one person with a viewpoint. !

         
  6. Why? do you think this is a good thing to do? Youre in bed with a history of WARS!
    I thought you stood for the 99%.
    Poppies represent different things to different people. To me its symbolic of honour death,and obey through violence..imposed by higher powers that tell us its for our own good!!
    Poppies represent a”never let go” “it will happen again” “remember”…well for whom?..i want peace.
    Same old fear machine being turned and churned through generations.
    Maybe you dont represent the 99%..just trying to win support from the vulnerable..then you are no better!!!

     
    • shazza,

      anti-war is ok
      but
      not anti-remembrance !

       
      • No with respect its the rememberance thats keep war and fear alive!
        For whom may i ask?

         
        • With respect for what you are doing..you do not represent me!

           
          • “No with respect its the rememberance thats keep war and fear alive!”

            So it would be better to forget the cost of war than being reminded annually of it? There were wars beforehand and there have been wars since. I don’t see what good it would do to pretend such things never happen in the hope they go away, because they won’t. In fact all that will happen is that the capitalists and imperialists will end up with a population that no longer is reminded of horrific wars nor mourns the cost of war, so that’ll be another generation of young people ready to be wiped out. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

             
          • Shazza, usually I try to come up with something a little more educated, however in this instance I think the best word to describe you is “idiot” (that’s the polite version too, of course).

             
          • Dill Doe,
            **** “usually I try to come up with something a little more educated” ****
            I read this yesterday and started laughing………..and I am still laughing !!

             
  7. I’m anti-war and I observe Remembrance Day without seeing any contradiction. People who fight in wars tend to be strongly anti-war but have unfortunately had to fight for the survival of their families and comrades and even their ethnic group and culture. OLSX is doing a good thing and I may join you again on Sunday.

     
  8. What are these stupid comments doing on here? Anyone who thinks remembrance day is about anything but remembrance is sorely mistaken. It’s not about glorifying war or justifying it, but remembering people who served and died, some of whom have relatives alive today or fought themselves. Take your own little political objectives out of this and think about what you’re doing and saying.

     
    • These comments are here because this is a democratic forum. Why should not people be able to criticise the patriotic consensus that basically demonises anyone who does not salute the flag and wear the poppy? You don’t seem very tolerant of those who think differently on this.

      Unfortunately, it goes a lot further than that. When the capitalists want to go to war, they will try to crucify anyone who stands against that. Wars can be just as much of a weapon against the working class and the poor at home as they are against the nation the capitalists are fighting. If we are going to do anything serious to change the capitalist society we live in we are going to have to learn to stand up against this kind of hysteria.

       
  9. If you want to wear a symbol that signifies opposition to all wars, wear a white poppy. The 11th November is not the time to start mouthing off about capitalist wars, nobody will listen for start and you’ll come across like a hate filled disrespectful loser.

     
  10. Burn the poppies-they are a symbol of terrorism-fact!

     
    • You should get the f*** out of the UK

       
      • This is an international forum. So Monkey wrencher may actually not be in the U.K.

        Someone else (outside of the U.K.) once said:
        “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”
        Voltaire

        Whilst the lions lead by donkeys of the First world war were slaughtered in defence of the various monarchies and elites.
        The second world war was, IMHO, very much about freedom of speech. Anyone decrying the latter is very much on the wrong side of history…

        http://brobof.wordpress.com/2011/11/09/lisan-al-gaib-heart-to-heart/

         
        • Yeah yeah, you should go too!

           
          • So we have Dill Doe (or Dildo) and Jock Strap posting for the reactionary right-wing on this site.

            When is Dick Head going to come along and start posting here….?

             
    • Be aware that whatever you post on this site is under the scrutiny of the security forces. It is straightforward to obtain a subpoena to any internet service provider and thereafter obtain home / office details of any possibly criminal incitements on this website. Just a reminder to those who, were this a moderated website , would have their postings removed. Keep the conversation realistic & to the point or you may be in contravention of the law !!

       
  11. Burning poppies would be a very stupid and provocative thing to do.

    No particular objection to wearing white poppies if that floats anyone’ boat, because at least that expresses some sort of opposition to the nationalism that Poppy Day represents. Though it does come across as pacifist, and I dont think we should be pacifists.

    But we have to learn to stand against attempts to whip up nationalism. Its one of the oldest tricks in the capitalists’ book. If we can’t stand up to some the kind of low-level bullying that goes on in the media of people who refuse to wear poppies, then how would we do when there is an actual war starting?

     
  12. This is about people..human beings. Of course we do not support violence..we do not want to see another human being in pain…but what does the poppy represent? respect for those who have fought..have fought before and will fight again!
    And for what?..really..a country….why? religeon..land…pride..democracy!!
    Open your eyes its always happened..and for what.”””PRIDE”””
    Bugger that..government will always support the poppy because it supports WAR…
    !Lest we forget”
    Germany, France, Spain. Portugual, USA…it doesnt matter what country you happen to be born into the message is always the same!!!

    HUMAN BEINGS WAKE UP…get up OFF your knees!!!

     
  13. So, the people who have been yelling “baby killers” at the soldiers walking past, are going to join in the days reflection. Nice.

    I’m getting sick to death of you lot blaming the banks for everything. The reason that the UK is in such massive debt is due to the labour government borrowing HUGE amounts of money to expand the civil service as a way to reduce unemployment … unfortunately, the victims in this are the people in the middle .. those people will likely lose their jobs – but they are jobs that should never have been created. The left wing governments around the world borrowed beyond their means, and so did we all. Now, instead of accepting responsibility, people are looking for scape goats.

    Did the banks compound the situation? Some, Yes – but not all – please keep in mind Barclays and HSBC cost the government and tax payers nothing, and in fact money will be made from the eventual sale of RBS.

    Did the banks force greece, ireland, spain, italy and the UK to borrow money? Nope … But, its the banks fault.

    Did the banks legally avoid paying tax – yup, which benefits share holders (including pension funds) – whilst not exactly moral, they did what is in law, law not revoked by the left for the years they were in power.

    So please, please stop blaming all and sundry. Perhaps taking a little responsibility would help.

    I’d like to see change as well – but, not the change you are advocating. So far, this protest movement is completely left wing – the exact same side of the coin who caused the housing crisis in the US through piss poor legislation, borrowed MASSIVELY, got in huge amounts of debt.

    Cuts have to be made, tax needs to be changed so everyone (including companies) pay. But I am sick to death of “bankers” are the cause of the worlds problems, when that is not the case at all.

     
    • Alas so wrong on so many levels:
      Start here: Steve Keen “Debunking Economics: The Naked Emperor Dethroned?” 2nd Ed.
      And this is fun http://youtu.be/DsEUs0xK5KY

       
    • Mr/Mrs (?) Please. I think this is a valid point, this protest does err to the left…because that’s who’s turning up and engaging with the Occupations and Assemblies. If you have an alternate view to put across, it’s simple – get involved, engage with it and get your friends, allies and your shared knowledge involved too. You never know, you could be a valuable addition to the discourse…you may teach the left something, you may learn something from the left (here’s a tip: I don’t think there’s any love lost among the 99% for Labour either). If you want things to change, but disagree in what’s being said, you’re as capable as anyone else to sit and talk it out with each other….or are you waiting for someone to do it for you? Where’s your rugged individualism? Where’s your excellence?….don’t whinge, get involved!!

      Here you go, have a read of this, it illustrates that the old organised (and authoritarian/vanguard) left is just as much rattled by the ‘process’ of assembly and consensus (which is the ‘prize’ in itself) as anyone else.

      http://www.wsm.ie/c/occupy-movement-assembly-process-revolution

      The only way to gain a place in the future is to join it.

       
    • actually i agree, banks are too narrow a target.

       
  14. i guess its savvy to ride the poppyganda, but it infantalises the british public and spreads a rather romantic view of the wars of the first half of the 20th century.

    i’ll be remembering the victims of brutal british imperialisms past and present.

     
  15. I am in the camp, but I appreciate particularly the idea of a remembrance wall. I will be remembering my Uncle and all others who have given their lives in conflict.

     
  16. The Occupy movement has done brilliantly to engender as much public support as it has through its careful, considered and humble approach. One of the most amazing developments of the past weeks has been the degree of dialogue across the land about the complex issues with our creaking capitalist system. This is a fragile space, which many would love to see evaporate. Remembrance Sunday has a great importance to many people and for that alone, it is right that the Occupy camp should join in observing this day, and thus continue to attract new people to look more closely at the issues the Occupy movement has been making. Most people that died in these wars were not warmongers – merely servants, and but for good fortune could have been any one of us. Let us remember the innocents and pray that we will not be one of them….

     
  17. muslims are out already protesting Right now

     
    • They’re part of the 99%. Are you suggesting you have the right to protest but they don’t?

       
  18. love your artwork, the poppy banner looks beautiful.

     
  19. @OLSX said:

    “We value the principles of human compassion and reconciliation, and feel that on Remembrance Day and Remembrance Sunday, there are no divisions, only human beings.”

    Good stuff!!!

    I hope this continues beyond Remembrance Weekend and permeates everything you do.

     
  20. It is useful to remember here: the number of Squaddies sleeping rough and *alone* on our streets; who are still sleeping on the streets but are now in a tent, in a community that values both their past contributions to society and their current contributions to the Occupations all over the world.

    Semper Fi!

     
  21. Just watched the excellent Livestream coverage of theOccupyLSX rememberance proceedings at St. Paul’s – it was far more moving than the BBC Coverage. Watching these dedicated people remembering the past gives us all hope for the future in what is a very difficult present. Well done to all concerned.

     
  22. In response to Maria’s comment that:
    “it only remind/shows how vicious we can be to each other”
    Chazza said:
    That’s the point.

    I would take that even further to say that it reminds/shows how vicious we can be to each other in the name of “I’m right ~ you’re wrong”.

     
  23. Getting really deep here ~ but I see the Creator of the universe in every single human being (more deeply buried in some than others, but there nevertheless). What the heck have we done to him?

     
    • … or rather I should say “less recognisable in some than others” ~ (due to their outward behaviour)

       
      • I just want to emphasise that I am sharing my own heart here ~ not claiming to represent any others or that of the movement.

         
  24. Please stay where you are and please ignore these ignorant faux patriots and their ignorant posturing. I am ex-forces and admire everything you stand for, keep up the good work. Peace!

     
  25. The people we remember today and on Sunday were part of their generations’ 99%.

     
    • Yes indeed, and in those days the working class engaged in revolutions against the warmongers who were sending them off to kill each other in the trenches. In Russia they overthrew the capitalists and refused to carry on with the war. Something similar came close to happening in Germany. But Poppy Day is not about celebrating those things, its about celebrating the generals, politicians and capitalists who sent them there to kill and die.

       
  26. Incidentally, here is Cameron’s Defence Secretary, Phillip Hammond, speaking about this on Sky News:

    “I regard it as critically important that we’re here to show how important it is to us the sacrifice that is continuing to be made. The ceremonies that we will have across Britain on Remembrance Sunday are not just about the war dead from the first and second world wars or even conflicts we’ve had since but this is about the ongoing sacrifice that people here are making on a daily, weekly basis, that they all live with every day.”

    In other words, for the government, this Poppy Day stuff is about supporting wars today, not just ‘remembrance’ of long dead people from the early 20th Century.

    That is why its not respect for the dead, but an endorsement of criminal wars that are happening now, that the red poppies symbolise. And that’s why there is bullying pressure against those who don’t wear poppies. Its pressure from the militarist right and the ruling class cracking the whip.

     
    • “but this is about the ongoing sacrifice that people here are making on a daily, weekly basis, that they all live with every day.”
      I suggest that you re read what he said and then think about it. Don’t just offer a knee jerk reaction because he’s a member of a particular party or the Government.
      By the way, your contributions to this, which I have come to late in the day, are grist to the mill of those who are on the far right. They prove their points quite well in their eyes.
      No matter what one thinks or believes about war, it is true to say that my generation and those following it to date have no experience of the overwhelming horrors (or even the occasional human glories) of total war. Our parents and grandparents were, through no fault of their own, forced, cajoled, shamed, persuaded into their parts in these all engulfing conflicts. Little was it thought that the effects could be as long lasting as they have been………
      Our parents fought the evils of fascism, both that which arose in Europe and that which arose elsewhere. Whatever we believe, we cannot avoid the fact that these previous generations gave up years of their lives for something in which they had a belief, to which they felt, for the most part, they owed a duty. For some it was the threat of fascism for others it was merely to defend their country and their way of life. Yes, there were those who would have willingly seen Britain, and more of the world, under the rule of regimes couched in fascist, racist ideals.
      It behooves us to consider with care how we remember and acknowledge, or not, the sacrifices made by so many from such a wide world.(http://magpie11.wordpress.com/)

       
      • “Our parents fought the evils of fascism, both that which arose in Europe and that which arose elsewhere. Whatever we believe, we cannot avoid the fact that these previous generations gave up years of their lives for something in which they had a belief, to which they felt, for the most part, they owed a duty. For some it was the threat of fascism for others it was merely to defend their country and their way of life. Yes, there were those who would have willingly seen Britain, and more of the world, under the rule of regimes couched in fascist, racist ideals.”

        There was no fascism in the first world war, 1914-18, and Germany under the Kaiser was not really any more or less democratic than Britain. Unless you want to count ‘poor little Belgium, which was on Britain’s side in the first world war and whose racist king was responsible for murdering 10 million people in the Congo. Don’t believe me? Look it up. Google it. Read ‘King Leopold’s Ghost’, the noted book on the subject. The worst racist killers were on Britain’s side in the first world war. And the British Empire itself led to millions of people dying violent death or avoidable famine.

        The second world war was largely caused by the outcome of the first, incidentally, with the impoverishment and plunder of Germany. If Britain, France and the US had not tried to make the German people pay, then Hitler would probably have never even gained power. And don’t kid yourself that there was not real sympathy for Hitler and fascism among the wealthy in this country.- including among royalty.

        And there are a lot of people in Iraq and Afghanistan who do have experience of war, at the hands of ‘our’ government. Poppy Day does, as Phillip Hammond made very clear in supporting the government’s view, imply support for current wars and not particularly showing respect for those who died in wars in the early 20th Century.

        And in any case, the far right do not need any excuse. They don’t care about the fact that the camp is celebrating Poppy Day. They were planning to smash it up anyway, and would have done if the cops had not stopped them. You wont fight against the far right by appeasing militarism, that only plays into their hands and gives them legitimacy.

         
  27. It’s a great shame, that the people who have provided the protesters with “the freedom to be protesters” are made to change their rememberance day for people who don’t really know the right way to act. Intentions are one thing, action is another as you know, the right action on Sunday is to step aside for the veterans and thank these men and women for giving up the best years of their lives so that we are all free. It’s such a shame that we are even having this debate, don’t loose my support by not showing your thanks to ww2 veterans, I feel you may loose a whole load of support, but hey, its your choice..St Pauls is a symbol to a generation of freedom, fighting spirit and standing together, make sure you look after it as I’m not seeing the “love” right now people, rememebr what I said, intentions are meaningless without action, the right action is to step aside.

     
  28. My own personal opinion (is that allowed?)

    Sky News reported yesterday that 2500 wounded soldiers (including 350 with lost limbs) could be made redundant.

    Is this how we remember those who have served in the armed forces?

    According to defucemanagement.com:

    • Around one-quarter of all single homeless people have served in the Forces.

    • They are more likely to sleep rough, spend long periods of time in temporary accommodation, and have been homeless for many years.

    • In addition, homeless ex-Service people are, on average, considerably older than none ex-Service homeless.

    • 70% surveyed said they had physical and/or mental health problems

    • This includes just over a quarter suffering from depression, stress or nerves, and about a quarter with an alcohol related medical condition;

    • 40% had been in prison and 23% in a psychiatric unit;

    • Ex-Service people found the level and quality of help in finding accommodation when they were leaving the Service to be inadequate;

    • Only 12% of ex-Service people surveyed had received any help in finding accommodation when they left the Forces. Only 39% were satisfied with the help they did receive. In addition, many who had thought at the time that they did not need help had since changed their mind;

    • Resettlement help given by the Forces welfare agencies for people leaving the Forces is geared towards families. Much less is available for single people.

    How are these lost souls remembered? Chewed up and spat out….

    And then, least we forget, the despicable case Lance Corporal Jordan Bancroft. After he was killed in Afghanistan his family where told that £433 had been overpaid into his account because he died on August 21, 2010 and thus had not served the whole month.

    It was taken from a payment of £1,493.04 refunded for holiday time off not taken.

    What a disgrace. These men and women deserve better.

     
    • I spent some time helping out on a feeding program for the homeless in a city-centre. I spoke to an ex-services man who had been provided with a flat by the British Legion. He spoke of how it had been fully furnished with all he needed and he was very grateful. From what he told me, I got the impression that he probably didn’t need free hand-outs of food, and yet he came to the hand-out every night and hung around until the end. It would seem that his hunger and need went far deeper than for material provision. Food for thought.

       

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