Occupy London statement on renewed legal action from the City of London Corporation

 

Today the City of London Corporation announced that they intend to recommence their legal action against us under the Highways Act.

As a movement, Occupy London believes in bringing divergent views together in a spirit of open discussion, with the intention of reaching consensus.  We are therefore disappointed that the City of London Corporation has decided to cut off the process of dialogue at their end and go down the legal route.

Last week, Occupy London presented our formal counteroffer to the City of London Corporation. We asked the Corporation to do a few things that every other local authority does as a matter of course: to make itself accountable to the public under the Freedom of Information Act and to make certain aspects of its financial and lobbying activities more transparent. Today’s announcement is the first thing we have received in terms of a response. We cannot help but feel that the failure to engage with us constructively represents something of a missed opportunity.

We note that, in addition to discussion of the Corporation’s responsibilities as a highway authority, Stuart Fraser, the outgoing policy chair saw fit to cite “reports about  vulnerable people, cases of late-night drinking and other worrying  trends.” This is something we want to respond to directly.

Like occupations across the world, the sense of community Occupy London has fostered has attracted some of the more vulnerable members of our community to our camps. We have given a number of people, whom society has essentially written off, a renewed sense of purpose and self-esteem as part of a community where they are respected for the contributions they bring.

Some of those attracted to our camp come from challenging situations and bring those pre-existing difficulties with them. We have recently set up a welfare initiative to help those people where we can and to signpost them to existing service providers. We are not in a position to provide a solution to these problems – we are very much aware of this – but we are doing what we can. We are certainly not encouraging anyone who is already being provided with accommodation or support to come and join us: we just don’t have the resources to provide that kind of specialist help, as much as we’d like to.

Our  camps at St Paul’s Courtyard and Finsbury Square represent hope to a great many people – some of whom don’t have all that much.  If the City of London Corporation wishes to pursue this line of argument, what we would say to them is this: whatever “worrying trends” the Corporation may perceive are not actually trends. These are pre-existing problems and issues that the Corporation, as a local authority, has a responsibility to deal with. Sweeping difficult issues under the carpet, or simply seeking to move them on, will not actually solve anything.

In  the spirit of the Occupy movement in London and throughout the world,  we remain committed to open dialogue and will seek to continue that dialogue with the City of London Corporation, whether they feel willing to continue that process with us or not. As far as legal action goes, there is really very little to say: we are aware of our legal position and the likely timeframe for any action. We have a great legal team on board and are not in the least concerned about the road ahead.

 

117 Responses to “Occupy London statement on renewed legal action from the City of London Corporation”

  1. Thank you press team – this is so well presented by you, and accurately addresses the reality of the lives of some people in our national community. People who, as you rightly say, are ignored by words like ‘worrying trends’.

     
  2. You forget. You’re not in charge guys. Your counter offer wasn’t worth the screen space that it was written on. Good riddance. About time you all went home and stopped trying to irritate me on my daily commute.

     
    • As tax payers and British citizens Occupy protestors have a right to demand transparency from a local authority in the UK. The City of London should not be above the law.

       
      • And I have a right to go about my business without a poxy leaflet being shoved in my face or some trampish looking guys trying to have a conversation with me whilst its clear that I’m on the phone. Of course, they know what one of those is, right?

        It is not your right, however, to set up a tent camp on a public highway. So, you’ve had your chance. Get up, move on. Silly “counter demands” makes your “movement” sound very childish doesn’t it.

        Time to go home. You’re point’s been made. Nothings changed. You’ve failed.

         
        • It must be awful to have to suffer the hardship of having to look at trampish people and having to withstand being offered a leaflet. Tough times eh?

           
          • Classy response Mio. Next time you’re on a phone, and someone tries to talk bollocks to you, I’m sure you’ll tell them to go away. Well, try that but at least 10 times in 2 weeks. One day, when they get the peice of my mind thats coming, they’ll think twice about interrupting a conference call, wont they!

            Point is Mio, your movement has lost its credibility. Across the world. You’ve been there for a month, and so far, done naff all, apart from get up the noses of ordinary people, who quite frankly, couldn’t give a toss about your tent city, or the graffiti on the walls near the Cathedral.

            You’re also KILLING local businesses who have suffered enough, without you lot cutting off their customer base.

            The fact of this matter is, The City of London Corp have all the power to remove you. Boris Johnson has the power to instruct (albeit slowly) the police to remove you. Surely it’s in your best interests to just leave before your forced? Or can’t you all swallow your pride?

            Go home.

             
        • Rob, this is about slightly more important things than your walk to work

           
          • Really? Well your mob have a funny way of demonstrating that don’t they Liam? I see more “lets try to bribe people through means of pointless, meaningless counter offers” and less “protesting”.

             
          • am wondering what “the peice of my mind” would be! Pardon me I was not born in this Country and therefore ONLY speak four languages Rob

             
        • My heart goes out to your narrow-minded attitude to this issue Rob, if they upset you that much cross over the road my friend, why allow them so much power to live in your head rent free….I can just see it now as you wake every morning with the protesters being the first thing on your mind……:) Its painful isnt it, but im afraid unless you learn to deal with it and find your part in this resentment, it will eventually kill you spiritually im afraid, and by the tone of your posts you are very much well on the way mate….Id learnt to let go if i was you, be a lot less painful for ya……:)Good luck in letting go mate.

           
          • Fantastic case study there Patric, thank you. 😉

             
        • about 2 weeks back around middayish I was in a group (it doesn’t matter which one) we were all sitting on the floor in a circle around a bit of cardboard we were using for notes, patiently waiting our turn to contribute & straining to hear each other over the roar of the passing crowd.

          A corporate type suddenly appeared behind me and thrust a phone to my ear saying “he’s the prime minister! do you have anything to say to the prime minister?” I said “hello” to the man without seeking to cause offence, & attempted to resume that which I had been distracted from.

           
      • Also Mio, You’re not doing a very good job of actually protesting. When I walked to City Thameslink the other day, sounded a lot like a drunken mob at a football match. Doesn’t wash I’m afraid.

         
        • Mio – stop feeding the troll!

           
        • Well said Rob! It is the typical group of rentaprotester that i thought it would be.

          You clowns would protest at the opening of a fag packet! Let me guess, Dale farm, road/rail schemes, G20, G8 i bet the same faces are now have been and always will be there being a pain in the arse.

          The normal REAL people really don’t care about you, and are sick of you stealing land which you don’t own.

          Counter offer, that’s like me finding a burglar, in my house, me telling him to get out, and him making a counter offer to leave if i explain to him the reasoning behind how i spend my wages!

          You are chip paper, go.

           
          • Even chip paper serves a purpose and has a very useful role to play dont you know !
            I have heard the streets of london are paved in gold, is this where you eat yours from ?

             
          • Rob & Paul, first of all thank you for taking the time to come and post on the forum. The fact that you have taken the time to add your opinion is a testament to the fact that the occupation is actually having an effect.

            Aside from the inconvenience your appear to be experiencing, I would like to ask what is your general opinion on the many issues that we are trying to highlight? I’m not asking for a detailed synopsis (though please feel free if you feel so inclined), but would just like to know where, in general, you stand these issues: http://occupyLSX.org/?page_id=172

            The arguments that we are making seem to make a lot of sense to me and a lot of people I meet, but I appreciate and accept that people have different opinions and I’d very much like to hear yours.

             
          • @Rob and Paul – right on! I look forward to the removal of the lazy anarchists. Might even pop down on the big removal day with some popcorn. Just wanted to show some support as the Canvas Corps still seem to be under the illusion that they represent 99% of the population which, as we know, is abolsutely rediculous!

             
          • Rob & paul, normal everyday people are very interested in what the Occupy movement is saying. I am 48 and have never been on a protest. I am not camping at St. Pauls because I would physically be unable to. I am very grateful for their presence there. I am in full support of what they are doing, and follow the Occupy movement around the world closely. I discuss it with my friends and family and they also feel that what these guys are doing is very valuable. Things need to change and this movement is creating the awareness that will bring about the necessary discussion and public involvement.

             
          • You’re arrogance might just be what saves you. I’m 21 years old, like many of you, I spent the first 20 years of my life, living in your side of the system. I once thought Capitalism was a noble thing, but then I also used to think womens liberation was. Until one day, I saw the system didn’t care about me, or you. And so I decided to not care about the system. You’re negativity creates nothing but Apathy. Our government shows us negative news 24/7 to distress us, to create apathy amongst the human race on a big big scale. Positivity is whats needed here, Flow is what pushes us forward as a species and race. It matters not what you’re views are on this, because we will still continue to fight for your Human Freedoms. Do not be jealous or resentful because we have noticed the transition from the whip to the pound (Corporal Punishment to Corporate Punishment), be grateful that we have noticed and are trying to change. When the Power of Love out weighs the Love of Power, then the world will be saved. But you have to realise this world will be fine without the corporate system. So I suggest, as we are not going to change our views, that you change you’re route. Or invest in some form of Audio Device with headphones, with a tape of David Cameron telling you he loves you, and that everything he’s doing for the country is for the good of you and the 99% and that he’ll bring you you’re milk and cookies in bed to make you feel loved and safe. Enjoy your fancy mobile phone paid for by your slavery. As its clearly so important to you. Naive.

             
        • We are a honey trap for troubled people-I’m sorry if the noise disturbs you but it’s not our ethos to turn away a select few (who come for the free food and the comfort of people who are actually pleasant to them) who are perhaps so angry at society that they can’t control themselves, are alcoholics or have had a difficult past and have lost their way a bit. These are the people who cause the noise and the noise is not approved of, believe me it’s difficult to sleep through, but we promote equality and give these people some sense of hope in what they often see as their otherwise hopeless, rejected and angry lives. Maybe one day walk past when you aren’t on your phone, there are some real intelligent and insightful people down here, have a chat to them. We are truly sentient beings just like you, please don’t assume we are inferior. Also, step into our shoes for a second and realise that we spend most of our day getting ignored by the people we are trying so hard to get the message of injustice across to. So when you walk past-maybe we just want you to take the flier, give it a read in your spare time, none of us ever mean to be impolite. We are all about the love and good vibes.

           
          • come on there Rob and you Paul,
            How will you respond to Ella and her sincere comment I wonder ?

             
          • Bravo Ella well said. Sometimes the negative comments here can be a little overwhelming. One is reassured by positive comments like yours 😉

             
    • @ Rob the … trader? … If you’re talking about local shops suffering you must be talking about the London Stock Exchange (the one’s the police put people off visiting) and with that attitude it’s pretty evident you’re as out of touch with what’s going outside in the real world as the politicians are.

       
    • Rob, please stop wasting our time, this and whatever space you refer to which could’ve been used for a sensible comment or action. Many thanks

       
  3. Good response, OLSX.

    Shame on the City of London Corporation for not answering your very reasonable demands or offering an explanation.

     
  4. Nice piece.

    btw Don’t Feed the Trolls.

     
    • Munch munch munch

       
      • Is that the sound of you ‘eating your words’ there dear Dill Doe
        or
        perhaps its chips from the streets paved in gold, would have wrapped it in the good old News of the World but they were so greedy they ended up eating themselves didn’t they just!
        anyway you sound voracious today so here is some more stuff for you to gorge on to enable you to keep that bloated brain of yours fed with the greed you so obviously need and want.

        munch on that !

         
  5. There will always be one troll. Rob, 10 times in 2 weeks somebody has tried to instigate conversation with you whilst on your phone? This is the worst you have to say about the occupiers?

    Your life must be sheltered, and pretty damn easy, if this is all you can find to complain about.

     
    • on a more serious note: how about moving the camp to Bunhill Cemetery?

       
      • I hope that you will realise very quickly the insensitivity of that idea

         
  6. I have worked as an outreach worker around the city of London’s patch and i have to say they are the WORST landlord for social hypocrisy….It surprises me not one bit that they are pursuing this course of action, to be honest with you i detest, with a passion, all that they stand for!….It makes my blood boil to see what they are prepared to do to sustain this utter bollox attitude to continue filling the quaffers and helping the fat F&^K’s get fatter……I cannot tell you how much i HATE what they stand for and the way this spineless country an its government allow it to happen!! Makes me ashamed to be living here im afraid….:(

     
  7. @Rob, please, please actually do some research and see for yourself. Trolling on a website makes you look childish and desperate. There is a clear message and a clear set of demands, I can only think you are one of the people set to lose out when things are changed. Nothing more dangerous than having your way of life threatened eh Rob, now you know how we feel……

     
  8. Nicely done response. Thank you for doing this and being so reflective and measured, much appreciated.

     
  9. OLSX, you’re clearly missing the point. You have no right to make demands in exchange for moving on. If I set up camp in your garden I wouldn’t have any right to demand you give more money to charity before being moved on. I would rightfully be moved on by the police. Yes, as members of the public you can question public bodies but you have no right to demand things in exchange for you complying with the rules. What about the people who do not agree with your demands. Should they be ignored just because they haven’t made a campsite in a public place?

    What makes you think you’re so special that you can break the rules? Until you stand for election you are just 100 people camped on a public highway. who are being rightfully moved on.

    Again, you’re fighting all the wrongs fights; against the police, against the right of the authorities to stop you camping on a public highway, against the church. There are plenty of avenues of legitimate protest such as marches (e.g.the anti-war and anti cuts marches) or standing for election. With the economy as it is there are many that are hurting but you are doing them no good at all.

     
    • I’ve just read Paul’s analogy, which is better than mine so please ignore mine and use his below

      “Counter offer, that’s like me finding a burglar, in my house, me telling him to get out, and him making a counter offer to leave if i explain to him the reasoning behind how i spend my wages!”

       
      • “There are plenty of avenues of legitimate protest such as marches (e.g.the anti-war and anti cuts marches) or standing for election.”

        You have hit it on the head. This is the crux of the issue for me. None of the above are effective for change. It’s just ignored. Look at the ridiculous suggestion of a 15 min strike! Says a lot about how much the government is listening and how nothing will change. Unfortunately, elected politicians across the board may have started life in politics with ideals and good intentions but then they all seem to allow themselves to be bought by those with power and wealth.

        This is why Occupy movements start. Those wielding power are not listening at all!

        Personally, in the interests of Democracy, free speech, expression etc I actually think there should be a permanent space outside parliament where citizens can protest and voice their discontent etc. And this should not hinder marches etc but purely be a visible space where democracy and free speech reign.

         
        • I lik that idea Pat.

           
          • Thanks Josie. And it could be fun. And a great way for people to meet, for ideas to blossom…. real democracy…

            Too much now is so bureaucratic, dull and soulless… and intolerant it seems…

            Bring back some humanity and allow the human spirit to express and breath…
            Its not all about how you spend your wages boys 🙂

             
        • Quite right Pat. If we actually lived in a democracy we would be able to protest outside Parliament…

           
      • Ahh, Dave, you doth protest a bit too much me thinks. Imagine governments – apparently the people – hadn’t bailed out the banks and had let investors suffer the consequences of their risks…. If you work in the city you should really be very grateful to the people and just be glad they haven’t lynched you.

         
    • Mmmm remember a huge protest about the war in Iraq but still we went to war, completely ignored. I think, no I feel proud to be part of Occupy. By the way, I do go to work, I do pay my bills and I do pay tax. I have grown weary of hearing about our service men losing their lives defending our country against so called evil regimes and terrorists. I have been shocked to see bonuses blatantly paid to bankers at the same time as I have been told that I must face austerity measures. My gas and electric has gone up. Petrol at £1.37! Unfortunately my wages have remained the same for years. My boss is struggling to find new business and I worry for my job. I also worry about the environment but still we continue to rely on oil and any new methods are quickly squashed for 100’s of reasons but we know all of this comes down to MONEY and CONTROL by the 1%.
      The occupy movement doesn’t have the answers for the shit we are in, they do however stand up and shout about it. All across the world the people have stood up and said enough is enough.

      Long live Occupy.

       
      • Brilliant comment Julie, great to read such words of wisdom. You make me smile 🙂

         
    • Alas no. If there is one thing we have learnt Protesting by their rules does not work. “Now is the time for the Winter of our Disobedience!”

       
  10. Posted earlier also. I await the usual shouts of “troll” from those who find reason or debate an impossibility…

    I’ve just seen the Guardian Comment is Free circle-jerk over Occupy and quite honestly, this nonsense needs to stop. Occupy is an indulgence and a scam. Having asked the questions around donations, expenses, and who is in charge of the money, I’ve either been ignored, insulted, told to mind my own business, or otherwise rebuffed. What probably started as good intentions has just ended up in folly with nothing achieved whatsoever. The saddest thing is that Occupy are leeching off others – camping out (perhaps only part time) on someone else’s property, larking around playing games all day, making a good living (£10k profit in a month) off donations made by generous people who believed that their money was going towards trying to make the world a better place. Put bluntly, they are parasites and scammers taking good folk for a ride. That’s money potentially diverted from charities and small businesses and spent on God knows what.

    If you think I’ve libeled you then sue me, but you’ll have to open up your income and expenditure for scrutiny to prove me wrong, which I’m pretty confident that you won’t do.

     
    • Jim,

      Do you support any of the causes that Occupy stands for? Would you like to see improved sustainability, social justice, and economic equality?

       
    • £10,010 remember, Jim. Thanks once again for prompting me to make a donation!

       
      • Me too!

        Maybe if the donations reach a truly obscene amount, a habitable building can be purchased somewhere close to the City. That would be awesome. It would allow us to keep up the pressure until the next election (although I’m sure we’ll have an ex-Goldman Sachs “technocrat” installed for us before then).

         
    • If its a folly why are you spending so much time on here??

      You have been told many times that Occupy will provide financial details but yet you keep going round and round like a broken record.

      ZZzzzzzz

       
  11. They have done a lot of good to me. I personally am upset that the corporation are directing concerns and reasoning for evicting, partly towards vulnerable people as one of their excuses.

    Well, I have to tell them that, what I have never got from social services, my local councillors, police, or society, I am getting at the occupy. It isn’t perfect and I don’t really join in properly, because I am still not great, but, I am better than I was before my visits and I visit because it feels like sanctuary to me. I was going to commit suicide in june, but I saw something brewing which stopped me feeling like this anymore; the BskyB scandal came out, councillor deception also exposed in my area, abuse in homes, the riots, and now the occupy movement world wide.

    Don’t use the vulnerable card, corporation, because some of us are only vulnerable because of 1% wannabes that direct their focus on their 1% buddies rather than what they should be there for, protecting and helping the vulnerable become an active member of society.

    I am seeing that people are starting to find courage to speak out and expose within councils and other areas, even some of the 1% ers are doing it. I am very grateful to them and I hope this continues, so hopefully we’ll see change inside these corporations as a natural progression. I definitely am not against all 1% ers. some do not trust the governments and would love to provide support, but just don’t have the avenue to provide it yet.

    You know, I had my first hug in years at the occupy this weekend, where someone was genuinely pleased to see me. Before this I have been almost completely isolated for 9 years. I have been on a healing ‘march’ with occupy people, which showed me what freedom means, which I have never felt for, perhaps all my life, and did feel strange, and has made me realise that I have been controlled and suppressed by the systems, instead of helping me break free of my suffering, for them to make money or progress their professions, rather than focusing on getting people independent again. And yes, I have been used for research and training without my consent for greed of self-progress.

    We all need to learn again what it is like to really feel free. This includes the 1% ers. So come on, it is time to bring this to fruition. Stopping the manipulation of the truth and starting exposing the truth will be a good start that anyone can join in with. I think my local politicians are very worried in my area and I see it in their attempts to manipulate their own importance to try and prevent people seeing the truth. I see politicians joining in with exposure now.

    I am excited and very hopeful for change for all vulnerable; so, don’t take this hope away from us, corporation. It is too late to evict using the vulnerable card because some of us are now established within this occupy community. The corporation are and will be responsible for any harm that comes to any vulnerable people now by evicting the camp.

    For me, it is the only place I feel safe. Be on your head corporation for the decisions you make, because you now need to take into consideration who do using for their only escape. I am not the only one, I am just an outspoken one 😉

     
    • I have suffered from an eating disorder and depression for many years-I have never felt more comfortable, real or accepted than in the last few weeks at St Pauls. They have done for me what councillors, re-feeding plans and medication has never been able to, it is a real healing place that enables you to help yourself. Often if there’s something so much bigger (and in this case crucial to everyones future) to focus on than yourself (not that I am in any way important but if given too much time alone or to think then your mind often drifts to your own qualms and worries) you can be so much more fulfilled. When that is combined with renewed hope for the future just because of the mindsets of the people of St Pauls, I honestly have to say that if this campsite is taken down not only does it show great ignorance in how futile things are currently looking but it will also be a great loss and hindrance for me any many others.

       
      • Hidden Member of Society and Much Happier I am with you also.
        I have been suffering from serious depression for over 10 years. This was down to some bad choices I made along the way and a general feeling of hopelessness about the future. For a long time the world looked like a very cruel place to me and to be quite honest, if I could have just crawled into a corner and died I would have been grateful. I could never consider suicide as I had the sense to realise this would impact too greatly on others lives.
        Thanks to the Occupy Movement I can now see some light at the end of the tunnel and have a glimmer of hope for the future. I am no longer slowly killing myself but instead striving to make a life for myself and help others. I’m off dope for the first time in over 10 years because I now have hope. Thank you all so much and please keep up the good work. Love to you all, even the trolls, I hope you find your way too.

         
    • Interesting post Hidden Member of Society and I am glad that you are now feeling better about things.

      when I say that some of the actions of OLSX are doing its cause no good I refer to its aim of gaining public support to instigate greater democracy and financial support in the country.

      In terms of the welfare that Occupy supports, every little helps but a camp at St Paul’s is an incredibly inefficient and unsustainable way to do this. If the protesters at Occupy were really motivated to help others then they could volunteer with the thousands of homeless shelters, charity shops and welfare organisations in London. One hundred or so people volunteering for a month would have had a huge positive effect not to mention the value of the money that Occupy as accumulated.

       
      • Dave, thats not the point of occupy… It exists to highlight an unsustainable system and move towards inclusive change. Honestly, it’s easy to see the faults, but creating a semi-permanent place where people can share their ideas and opinions on how they want their childrens future to be determined is the biggest step towards democracy in living history… while volunteering for different charities is excellent, it doesn’t challenge the question of why so many charities are needed in the first place, and challenging the status-quo makes any society stronger.. accepting the current system rejects the idea that we should be striving for a better life. it’s self-defeating, illogical and plays into the hands of the 1%

         
        • Must commend you on your thought processes there didge, succinct and sincere, I like it. 🙂

           
      • Sorry Dave. Nice try but “this Occupy Movement is not for individualisation :)” Indeed the Occupy movement is the very antithesis of Thatcherite (Friedmanite) theory. The market is not supreme and there IS such thing as society!

         
      • Acting individually to help people in trouble is no doubt a worthwhile thing to do, but come on, let’s get serious: we’ve just seen various governments massively reward a set of large banks and their employees for nearly crashing the whole world financial system through incompetence and fraud, only to see them turn around and begin holding the very same governments to (a whole bunch more) ransom, everyone else be damned. If you are paying any attention whatsoever, you presumably already know that the political system is completely corrupt and compromised. Suggesting that everyone just go back home and take little individual actions while the strings get pulled behind the political and big-money curtains seems, at best, either cynical or deluded.

        Maybe the Occupy movement will run afoul of a general let’s-do-nothing attitude like yours, Dave. But the point is, contrary to what we’ve been told for quite a few years now, TAMA (There Are Many Alternatives). And that insight isn’t going away, whatever happens to these brave folks.

         
  12. Robin hood tax the banks UK Can raise over 50 billion a yr but EU want this money.

    As stated here:
    http://robinhoodtax.org/

    David cameron on friday is planning a meeting with EU leaders to discuss this robin hood tax.

    Who thinks this money should goto the UK!

    ME!

    Everybody setup petitions

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions

    And let the people of london know this isnt the EU’s money!

    European Union costs Britain almost £65.675 billion per year!

    Make sure this money isn’t distributed to EU,t here will be no money going to NHS or people in poverty if the EU have there way!

    Stay Strong OccupY

     
  13. When they say they want to open a public highway, ask them to open the public highway that is paternoster square first before you move.

    I’ve set up a new blog on direct democratic solutions that you may find interesting…. samplocracy.wordpress.com

     
    • Great point Samplocracy!!

       
  14. To the people above who are telling them to move on, and that they should actually protest, what good have the marches and protests done? They’re just tokenistic gestures that the government allow the people to make it look like we have free speech and democracy. We’ve got to a stage where we need to break a few laws to actually make an impact. I am fully behind the protesters and believe that they should stay strong to all demands to move. As to Rob, why the hell are you having a conference call in the middle of the street? Seems a bit suspicious to me…

     
    • I bet Rob is one of those twits who doesn’t mute their phone during a conference call, and the surrounding noise from the camp caused him a bit of embarrassment…

       
      • I bet Graeme hasn’t had a wash in the last year….

         
        • This from someone who’s only half literate.

           
  15. I agree Jenny,
    Rob is a fool who wastes our time and his own. If he is so against us why does he bother to post in the first place.
    Surely his life offers more interesting pursuits than wasting his valuable time posting here. Best to ignore him I think.

     
  16. Great job on the statement! I have been away from St.Paul’s for 3 days and I already miss it and its peoples so much.

    They can’t evict an idea which has been constructed by hundreds of thousands of minds around the globe working as a sole mind. The connection, the strenght and the determination of the movement is such that a court has no chance of silencing it.

    About welfare, the humanity of the members of the Corporation of London and all those who forced us to take the streets seems to be gone for good. They can not understand our determination for not replicating the massive flaws of their system and a of a society badly bounded precisely by the excesses of such system. This is why we use consensus, we do not have hierarchies, leaders, we will not become a political party and we don’t rush for concrete demands. But this also is why we welcome all members of society for what they are, this is as humans, and not for the price tag the same system that failed all of us puts on them.

    p.s. Being an occupier is much better than being a lonely troll; give it a chance, it is for you, too.

     
    • laura, thank you for those wise words, 🙂

       
  17. Just read this:

    “Revolutions always begin, he wrote, by making impossible demands that if the government met would mean the end of the old configurations of power. ”

    …and thought it so very apt for this situation.

    http://www.truth-out.org/what-revolution-looks/1321384587

     
  18. I think most of what Rob said is complete crap, however he did kinda make a point (probably without realising it!). Any thoughts about standing for election????

     
    • Yes Em,
      Would have to be as an organisation (for want of a better label) thats voted for as opposed to an individual !
      Sounds stupid on the face of it but ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

       
  19. Since we have not seen any great ideas coming from any of the political parties yet, We expect the politicians to eat their humble pies and start seriously engage themselves with this bottom up, open participation discussion started by the Occupy Movement.

    It will be a historical crime for any politician to demand the crack down of the Occupy Movement when they themselves have so far failed to come up with any practical solutions of the crisis we are facing.

    By asking the Occupy movement to go, some politicians seem to be suggesting that only the politicians have the monopoly in finding the solutions to the crisis we are facing. However, as we watch the Market ousting and imposing prime ministers one after another, it is clear to us all that our politicians have been outsmarted and outgunned by the Market.

    it is the politicians who need the Occupy movement and the open forum that it has created to help them to find solutions.

    .

     
    • Again, wise words,
      A lot of clear thinking on this thread, good to see.
      Thank you meewaan. 🙂

       
  20. I have noticed a tendency to join up dots that don’t create a true picture in yore dealings with the bureaucratic nature of the ‘turf’ U’ve found yerselves on HERE
    and
    whilst I AM HERE let _ME_ say when facing down the bullies it ain’t ALL ways BEST 2 stare them in the eyes, try it with a strange Alsation guard dog for instance, whilst the humble approach of the wise who know the true nature of the REALITY they find themselves in WILL appear humbled when necessary whilst utilising that wisdom to walk toward the ultimate goal of disarming the delusions of the bullies.
    that’s what Jesus says any way. (apparently)

     
  21. Morning Campers! Been away for short mini-break for a few days so have been a bit out of touch with your rediculous demands and communist rhetoric. I’m back now though so will start to catch-up! 🙂 Is Colonel Canvas still around?

     
    • YES HE IS !!
      Although thought it was ‘captain’, or have you with the power you have control of promoted / demoted me ? (Not sure of the hierarchal levels sorry)

      See your break away has not improved your attitude just when we were making some progress last week, shame. 😉

      ‘Rediculous’ is this a word you have created with the power you have OR, and not wanting to put ideas in your head (not sure there would be room for such nonsense 😉 ) is it a play on words ?

      As for communist rhetoric, is it just the word ‘communism’ that bothers you are the thought of sharing stuff fairly ?
      kind regards,
      h.o.p.e.

       
      • No, I opted for Colonel when all you tented ones started saying that you wanted to ignore the problems in Libya. Of course, for a private company to profit from helping a country would be totally wrong… In fact that would be capitalism, so yeah Western Companies should probably not go to help them rebuild the country.

        Regarding my typo, yes, it’s a typo and no it’s not a play on words. Happens to the best of us though Colonel – see “hierarchical” 😉 Good thing this isn’t a press release… 😉

         
      • H.o.p.e., does “sharing stuff fairly” equate to sharing equally?

         
        • I think it means that everyone should be “equal” and be paid exactly the same regardless on how hard people work and their skill sets / intelligence. Sounds very communist to me…

           
          • Exactly Dill, that’s why I asked the question, and I’m also intrigued that all requests for financial transparency from the movement, have thus far drawn a blank. That tells me that they have something to hide regarding donations received!

             
          • pour or should tht B pore?

             
        • would be happy to get to ‘fairly’ with ‘equally’ as the aim.

          lets label it ‘fair’n’equalism’ shall we !
          open to suugestions tho, but no hypnosis please.

          what do you think the info you demand will tell you anyway?
          be careful of what you wish for………..your parents may have donated 😉

           
          • X-cell-ant LIKE tht ending.
            {* ! *}

             
  22. Everyone involved in the Occupy Movement, please read this article. Very very important strategy info: http://www.cognitivepolicyworks.com/blog/2011/10/19/a-framing-memo-for-occupy-wall-street/

    Excerpt: “It seems to me that the OWS movement is moral in nature, that occupiers want the country to change its moral focus. It is easy to find useful policies; hundreds have been suggested. It is harder to find a moral focus and stick to it. If the movement is to frame itself, it should be on the basis of its moral focus, not a particular agenda or list of policy demands. If the moral focus of America changes, new people will be elected and the policies will follow. Without a change of moral focus, the conservative worldview that has brought us to the present disastrous and dangerous moment will continue to prevail.”
    (it’s US-focussed, but thinking is universal relly)

    Also, the guys whole site is great 🙂

     
    • Good work Arnold 🙂

       
  23. It has been interesting to watch the “occupy” protests over the past weeks, both in the UK and abroad. In the majority, the protesters have carried out their demonstrations with dignity and in a peaceful and respectful way, bereft of the “rent a mob” mentality that some “anti capitalist” protests seem to attract. I think the occupy protesters have a lot of public support, from those trapped in the un sustainable “groundhog day” mentality that ties us all down and leaves us reliant on the state. Over the past 34 years I have worked hard, been diligent and been a law abiding citizen in every respect, yet recently I sufferred a breakdown at work and realised the true horrors and realities of the system to which I have been tethered. So many of us labour under the falsehood that we are free, yet we are no more free than a caged animal. It is just the bars that surround us are more subtle, It takes strong people, people who care and people with vision to question our leadership, their backers and the morality of their governance. That is what “occupy” has done, it has brought issues into the light and only when highlighted will questions be asked and actions taken. Sadly the media and the financial multicorps control is infinitely stronger than the small voices ranged against them, but they need to realise that the whispers grow to shouts and the shouts will be heard, Rome was not built in a day, but it fell far quicker than it rose, as will our current civilisation if we do not amend the way we live. Congratulations to all of you at St Paul’s and elsewhere and thankyou for trying to be the catalyst for change. Peace and Harmony go with you.

     
  24. The best thing for Occupy London to do would be to move on from the camp. The camp itself has become the argument and focus has been lost on corporate greed.

    The City Of London Corporation doesn’t regulate the banks – that is the central government – so beyond the camp discussion, they shouldn’t be much of a concern. However Occupy London can if they wish still try and get information on the running of the Corporation using a Freedom Of Information Request.

    The reports of £23000 donations are interesting ! “The Revenue” is going to come knocking eventually ! Maybe you should set yourselfs up as a registered charity or something…

    Occupy seems to see the corporate greed question as warranting calls for a revolution but it looks more like a need for tweaks to be made in the regulations, tax laws etc some of which are under discussion e.g. Vickers, Tobin tax. Afterall in a well functioning market economy, any business which rewards itself or its staff too much becomes uncompetitive and loses out to nimbler rivals. Also to be considered is that the worst excesses happened under the previous government and democracy in the UK can be seen to have worked in that they were booted out. A better focus now would be on lobbying the current government to put things right rather than to ask for changes to the democratic system. This kind of change of tack combined with a move on from St Pauls would enable Occupy to increase it’s popular support. And it is weight of numbers which makes a difference in protest ; a 15 minute strike by a few hundred workers would be ineffective, but if done by millions simultaneously would be much harder to ignore ! .

     
    • As a supporter of occupy I welcome your contribution but as it states on this sites “We’re in agreement that the current system is undemocratic and unjust.” You’re suggesting that we channel our efforts through a electoral system that we have little faith in. In this country we have this ‘ Mockracy’ for 1 day in every 1,825 and the choice is between being run over by a bus or train. We need our systems, be it electoral, social, economic, judicial et al, to be truly transparent accountable and just.

       
      • hmmmmmmm
        stepping stones OR a leap of faith ?
        which is more achievable in my lifetime I wonder {{-]

         
  25. The camp initially wanted to stay til Christmas. The Corporation has offered that but now you want to stay.. forever? It doesn’t sound like you had any intention of negotiating as it was admitted on here that you would take your time making a counter-offer that “sounded reasonable” but that the Corporation would never be able to accept. This sort of negotiation is a waste of time and money for all involved. Why pretend you wanted to negotiate? This is a Public space, which should be available for the enjoyment of all, not taken over by tents and one group for months on end.

     
    • On the St Paul’s web site it states the following: ” St Paul’s Cathedral embodies the spiritual life and heritage of the British people. It acts as an important meeting place for people and ideas, as a centre for the arts, learning and public debate.
      It describes itself as the nation’s church, a place for protest against injustice and for the public expression of hope for a better society. It goes on to say “Involvement in the global community and social justice is as much a part of the working life of St Paul’s as prayer and ceremony.”
      QED

       
    • In total agreement with you JC! Bring on the bulldozers! 😛

       
  26. Chinese man sets himself on fire in Tiananmen Square

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8893337/Chinese-man-sets-himself-on-fire-in-Tiananmen-Square.html

    Are we going to see Occupy Tiananmen II? I thought it will probably happen in 10 to 20 year time from now.

    Arab Spring started with a youth setting fire to himself.

     
  27. Unfortunately I think that the Occupy movement will ultimately end up being counter-productive. I totally support the right to peaceful protest, as, I believe, every right-minded person in the UK does. However, the question which I expect will arise is what to do when the right to peaceful protest is abused?

    It seems to me reasonably clear that the Occupy movement will not gain the broad support required to effect the change that the advocates are seeking. This is because it does not, in fact, represent the 99%. After all everyone in the UK has the right and freedom to join you in your protest. However, it does not seem to have to amounted to more than a few hundred people (and that’s probably generous most of the time). It’s hardly Libya or Egypt is it?

    The Occupy movement may enjoy some sympathies, on certain points, from the wider population (for example the payment of large bonuses to anyone, not necessarily Bankers, who has under-performed in their role). However, as an approximation, I would suggest that you represent the 1% on the extreme opposing side to the 1% “ruling elite and bankers” for whom you show such disdain.

    Unfortunately, from your perspective, the remaining 98% (and I do not purport that this is a unified group of the population all with the exact same views, and it may not be 98%, but believe me, it’s more than 50%) appreciate that our version of a democratic capitalist society is the best available. As time goes by the 98% (and their democratically elected representatives) will wonder how to deal with minority protest groups which abuse their right to peaceful protest. Can I suggest that this is likely to result in further legislation to curtail never-ending protest camps. Most of the 98% will accept that this is a curtail on people’s right to freedom of protest, unfortunately, the actions of a few will have made it necessary.

    That is not to say that our current system creates a fair distribution of resources, indeed, as you will be more than aware, it enables some to amass significant wealth (good luck to them in my opinion). However, it provides the most efficient use of resources, whilst also enabling the provision of a welfare state. Now, everyone will no doubt have an opinion on how large this welfare state should be, but, for the majority of the population, we are talking about small increases here and there and would agree that, by and large, it’s about right in our society.

    This allows the living standards of the population as a whole to rise over time (excepting that for some it rises more than others). It is precisely because of “the system” that, despite being in the midst of the deepest recession since the 1920’s, the hardship and suffering is, overall, far lower now than it was then.

    As a population we need to chart the best course through this uncertain time, but this will amount to some tweaks to the current system rather than wholesale changes.

     
    • Nice post Ollie, would just like to add a few personal points.

      There seems to be a vendetta against bankers at present, so let’s just analyse what really happened. Various governments of the day, especially ours, persuaded the banks to lend irresponsibly to create an artificial boom. Remember Brown, with his ‘no more boom and bust’ comment? Total lie. Sadly, the general public fell for it, and, encouraged by the banks and the government, many of them borrowed way beyond their means. Those of us that saw through this scam, did not try to live beyond our means. Sadly, we’re now the ones that are suffering, because our savings are being eaten away. Those that borrowed irresponsibly, are blaming everyone but themselves, having their debts wiped out (who’s paying for that), and now blaming the current government for their own, materialisitic greed. Perish the thought that ‘the people’ should ever accept responsibility for their own greed!

       
    • The stated aim of Occupy drafted on day 1 is that “The current system is unsustainable. It is undemocratic and unjust. We need alternatives; this is where we work towards them.” I can and do agree with that but I’m not an anti-capitalist. Also I’m not an anti anti-capitalist. You don’t have to be one or the other to be either for or against the above. You recognise that getting through these uncertain time will require some tweaks. Our only issue is the size of the tweaks. Greater transparency and accountability would be a place to start tweeking. Then there is the matter of the banker bailouts; socialism for the connected while everyone else (the unconnected) are expected to accept the consequences of capitalism. That seems unjust to me. It is one of many examples of those with power preaching one thing and practicing another. And even if the 99% are not hearing occupy’s whisper, which I dispute, you can be sure that the message is loud in the other centile.

      .

       
      • The bailout of the banking system, however unpallatable, was a necessary evil. Ideally, I agree, insolvent corporations should be allowed to fail. This allows the resources deployed by that corporation (land, labour and capital) to be redeployed to other entities better able to utilise them to create wealth.

        However, the failure of the banking system would have led to catastrophic pain for large numbers of the population. I can’t see how the bank bailout has significantly improved the position of investors.

        The reason for the cuts is not the bailout of the banking system, the one-off cash cost of which was not significant. The reason is that, to sustain historical levels of government spending, ever more borrowing is required. Ultimately this is unsustainable without affecting the borrowing rate available to the UK. In turn leading to a higher cost of servicing debt and even less funding available for other government spending. Greece and Italy are about to find this out.

        This would affect all homeowners in the UK, which is particularly sensitive to short term interest rates due to the high private ownership of property.

         
    • Ollie, a couple of points:

      Regarding the success or failure of Occupy, I would say ‘any publicity is good publicity’ – that is, raising awareness of the issues at hand and promoting their discussion will take place whatever happens, even if the camp gets publicly smeared or undermined somehow, the things it is talking about are getting more widespread attention, as they deserve.

      Regarding the bail-outs and the cuts, these are both just sticking plasters. The current system is going to collapse when it runs out of resources, with horrendous consequences. We can either wait for that to happen, or take steps to change things for the better before it does.

       
      • The beauty of a capitalist structure is that necessity drives technological development. I am not sure that pursuing a capitalist framework will ultimately leade to the catastrophy you are predicting.

        Although that is not to say the future will not be without its challenges. For example, there is no doubt that oil price and energy inflation will grow significantly in the future and they need to in order to drive the investment in other technologies required to replace oil.

        Anyone up for Nuclear power in the Occupy movement?

         
  28. Your right, £62 billion is obviously significant, perhaps this was not the right word. The point is that it was a one-off investment as opposed to running a budget deficit which require £ billions in interest payments every year.

    You are also correct that the government intervention prevented the failure of the bank and, thus, the shareholders retained some value. However, I think it is worth noting that the shares were trading at around £6.88 in February 2007, compared to around £0.50 at the time the government stepped in. So investors had already lost 92% of their investment.

    However, if RBS had gone to the wall the government would have had to honour the first £48,000 of each deposit held by an individual. There would also have been a run on other struggling banks Lloyds and Barclays. They would have honoured the deposits there too. This is without considering the knock-on impact that the failure of three of the largest banks in the UK would have had in terms of job losses, connected party insolvencies and the lost confidence.

    I’m not sure what you mean by the privatisation of profit and the nationalisation of debt. The government’s investment means that it owes 82% of RBS. Therefore, if and when RBS begins to generate profits and distribute dividends the government will be entitled to 87% of the distribution. It may also, ultimately, make a profit on the disposal of the shares too recovering the £62 billion.

    That’s why the bank bailouts are not comparable to other re-occuring government expenditure.

     
    • Apologies that should read owns 82% of RBS not owes!

       
      • This is all correct. The UK government was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Others might call it blackmail. My guess is that the banks lobbied to mix casino and retail banking so that their salaries and bonuses would be underwritten by taxpayer guarantees for the rest of eternity.

        My view is that before abandoning capitalism altogether, we should give it one more shot with true risk taking (no guarantees or bailouts) and proper regulation (for example, all insurance schemes should be solvent). If the pay differential was less obscene, some of the better brains could work for the good guys…

         
  29. To everyone. Do not feed the trolls UNLESS they want to discuss the City of London’s Corporation secret accounting systems, their lobbying techniques or there refusals to discuss the freedom of information requests. Anything else you discuss with the pro-fraud bank trolls, will be a waste of energy and time.

    To the pro-fraud banking trolls, is there anything you wish to say that supports secret accounting for the CLC when every other local authority publishes theirs? The medieval closed accounting systems inherent in the previous Crown Corporation of London, now the City of London Corporation cannot remain secret and should not remain closed to scrutiny by a democratic system.

     
    • Yeah, don’t even bother talking to anyone that doesn’t agree with you, as that is a greeeeeaaaaat way to reach a consensus and go about life in general. Just ignore everybody that doesn’t agree with you and your own priorities 100%. Also, just to be safe, call anyone critisizing you a “troll” and tell everyone to ignore them. Way to go!

       
  30. That’s kinda what always happens after a while when you “occupy” a place – the natives who actually live & work there will reclaim it. Maybe it’s time to realize that in order to strengthen democracy from the grass roots-level up you probably shouldn’t use the same kind of language and general attitude towards your fellow citizens that Bush displayed towards Iraq and Afghanistan… especially if you claim to represent 99% of society.

     

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