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Occupy London Statement on #9Nov and the Right to Protest

 

Today we offer our support and solidarity to students and construction workers protesting against the creeping impoverishment of our society, in our shared desire to create a better world. We look forward to a day of peaceful protest and creative actions to draw attention to the systemic problems that are affecting this country.

In a free society, the right to assemble and protest is sacrosanct. Occupy London condemns the unhelpful and counterproductive press briefings given yesterday which present the spectre of rubber bullets being used in this country against peaceful protesters. We remind all those reading this that many of those protesting today will be under 18.

Occupy London also condemns the issue of “warning letters” to those who have previously been involved in the student movement. The only conceivable reason for such action is in an attempt to produce a chilling effect on future protest. In a free society, this is simply not acceptable.

Occupy London wishes all demonstrating today well. We stand in solidarity with them and also our brother and sister occupations throughout the world. For occupiers in the US and Australia, the possibility of disproportionate police action is very real: to entertain similar action in this country, even for the briefest moment, is irresponsible in the extreme.

Please note that our media phone numbers have changed for the day.
Main media number: +44 (0) 74280 76610
Additional media numbers are listed on our website: http://occupylsx.org/?page_id=77

 

69 Responses to “Occupy London Statement on #9Nov and the Right to Protest”

  1. I hope they all get shot with rubber bullets.

     
    • Even my peaceful son and daughter who might be there ?

       
    • Nice Mike…Why don’t we just drop bombs on the world. Peace

       
    • Constructive comments please Mike!

       
    • That’s a terrible thing to say

       
    • No Mike…..there are better ways to deal with the bankers. That’s who you were threatening right?

       
      • Careful there Shaun,
        Mike will tell you your ‘INTERPRETATION’ is all wrong.
        So maybe you should read it again to make sure you did not mis-interpret what he DID SAY !

         
        • (…actually I’m not sure he knows what he’s trying to say?!)

           
    • What shoot our Children?

       
  2. “We look forward to a day of peaceful protest and creative actions to draw attention to the systemic problems that are affecting this country.”

    Wouldn’t direct action be better?

    “Occupy London condemns the unhelpful and counterproductive press briefings given yesterday which present the spectre of rubber bullets being used in this country against peaceful protesters.”

    What if rubber bullets are used against other protesters? Is OccupyLSX okay with that? Would you endorse it?

     
    • I, personally would endorse their use against VERY SPECIFIC criminals/potential criminals who have committed a crime containing violence.

       
  3. Lucky you… still considering the use of rubber bullet as excessive and extraordinary… people who lost an eye those last few years in France wish it were also the case!

     
  4. Yesterday everyone I saw writing about it seemed to think it was a real risk

     
  5. Be careful, they’re setting the mindset for a violent crackdown. Keep the love that gave birth to this movement and they won’t succeed.

     
  6. Good news I say!

    Nobody has said “let’s go shoot some students” – all they are doing is taking precautions due to the terrible violence that happened last time!

     
    • MIKE OXLONG did,

      first comment at start of comments !

      Let me know what you think of his comments ?

       
      • By nobody I meant nobody in a position of power – i.e. government / police. Also, I would also agree with you in that the rubber bullets should be used but in extreme cases where there is a repeat of the violence from the last time.

         
        • I actually didn’t say “Let’s go shoot some students”, I said I hope they did.

          If they start throwing fire extinguishers out of windows then I say get the rubber bullets out, if a few “innocent” protesters get caught in the cross fire, so be it.

           
          • Pity you did not make that clear when you first commented.
            You need to be careful because someone might LABEL YOU as an ANARCHIST trying to stir up trouble !!
            Are you ?

             
          • Do not feed the troll. Presumably he’s just being obnoxious.

             
  7. Did the canvas corps over sleep or something?

    Quite an anti-climax on numbers guys

     
    • What were the predicted numbers (and by whom) and actual turnout in the end?

       
  8. Looks like it Seymour – Captain Canvas needs to get his act together!

     
    • Dill Doe. I did try the Wigwam Wake-up call but to no avail. That said, there was a rather aromatic scent Tepee Towers this morning

       
      • hmmm did I say that

         
        • Yes I did.

           
    • Who is this ‘captain canvas’ or which you speak?

       
      • it is me h.o.p.e.. although I seem to have been cloned !

         
      • Yep, it is indeed Human of planet earth, he is Captain Canvas, leader of the tented ones

         
        • The tented ones have no single leader, they are all leaders, in a democratic way !

           
  9. Now there are tents pitched on Trafalgar Square!!!

    Right to protest – Yes, you have!
    Right to pitch a tent wherever you want – No, you don’t!

     
    • Why not?

      Also, if “right to protest” = “right to protest, so long as you do it quietly, in a corner, somewhere that both doesn’t inconvenience or hinder the people carrying out the activities you are protesting against and also won’t be seen by anybody just in case they find you slightly annoying” seems rather a toothless way of protesting.

       
      • and breathe……………

         
      • The camp at St Paul’s doesn’t inconvenience or hinder the activities of the banks or the Stock Exchange but it greatly hinders the activities of St Paul’s who you are apparently not protesting against 🙁

         
        • You’re right JJL. But remember, the campers are ignorant and lazy – they want anarchy, not any financial reform, I would not be surprised if they plan to destroy religion too.

           
          • So far I’ve yet to see that they could even decide to agree on anarchy. So far all that’s been posted (with the exception of one or two individuals) as someone put it is ‘childlike naivety and fantasy’. They seem to think this is a good thing and that it will, in some way, endear them to the masses whom they claim to be representing. Though it doesn’t stop there. In the outburst and Boris’ q&a session, which is on here so I assume condoned by the ‘movement’ they finish off their rant with ‘in the name of God and Mammon’. Now I am in no way religious but maybe I had better start – it would appear that God has sent us a messenger. Coupled with the pictures in a previous post, aligning themselves with any random cause they can, bizarre ravings about indigenous populations etc, do they honestly think that they are getting anywhere? Please – take a step back and look at yourselves and what you’re doing. You would appear to be made up of at least some intelligent people. What do you think this looks like to the rest of the population? If you really want change and feel the vast masses support you then the easiest, quickest, most sure fire way to bring about change is to stand in the next election. You have plenty of time to get a manifesto together and with apparently God, Mammon and 99% of the population on your side, you’ll get a landslide victory. I’ll still be voting for Cameron but will happily submit to the will of the majority. Until then, I would suggest that you work out exactly what you don’t like and precisely what you propose to do about it. I would also hazard a guess that ‘leave it to God’ or ‘’they’ should sort it out’ are not going to be vote winning options, but I’m sure you know better than me. After all, I’m only one of the, dumbly servile to the 1% masses, that is happy with my lot and just wish everyone else would stop moaning and either, come up with a viable solution, or just get on and enjoy life with the rest of us.

             
          • @ Andy,
            if you are the same Andy I have posted before,
            did you manage to get past monotone man to the end and what did you honestly think ?

             
          • Hi Human, yes, I’m the same Andy and sadly no, I haven’t yet had a listen. Its been a rather busy week but its on my list of things to do today. I am genuinely interested and will post back when I’ve had a chance to listen – not quite sure where as these nestings are making reading a thread very difficult. As per one of your previous posts, I also suspect we are not so different and, despite myself (and the initial insults! 🙂 ) I’m rather liking your posts. You seem to be one of the very few from the protest side that even attempts to put across ideas and listen to, let alone participate in reasoned argument.
            Glad also that the student protests went without the violence and damage of last time. Clearly the threat of a rubber bullet helped keep the majority of minds focused!

             
    • The legality of the occupations is a grey area – making it black and white would most likely suit those who want to stop the protesters message getting through.

      Fortunately, the occupations at St Pauls and Finsbury Square seem to be doing OK so far…

       
  10. @Dill – Maybe the national gallery offers more secluded toileting facilities

     
  11. @Human of Planet Earth

    I made it perfectly clear in my initial comment, you were the one who interpreted it differently.

    Also, you may want to fix your caps lock key, it seems to be playing up.

     
    • No it works perfectly well when I want it too, so all OK there thanks.
      After all it got your ATTENTION did it not.

      As for your “I made it perfectly clear in my initial comment,”
      YES
      your initial comment was PERFECTLY CLEAR, which is why I was able to reply to it.
      I did not realise interpretation was required, perhaps you should include a disclaimer next time or state how it is to be interpreted.

       
      • Caps lock key is still broken…

        If you read what I originally wrote and then read in an above comment what you stated I allegedly wrote then you will see that you do indeed require someone to interpret for you.

        I’m afraid I cannot write disclaimers for people who cannot understand basic English.

         
        • Errr I did read what you originally wrote and that is what I replied to did I not ?
          How could I possibly include your next comment with my original comment when you hadn’t yet posted it !
          I am good but I have to confess to not possessing psychic powers.
          Furthermore, I did not ‘allege’ anything, I re-iterated what you had written, end of.
          As for needing someone to interpret for me, where your comments are concerned then YES, as I thought you said,
          (Mike Oxlong on November 9, 2011 at 12:07 pm said:)
          and I quote
          “I hope they all get shot with rubber bullets”

          Here is how I did ‘interpret’ your comment just so you know.

          ‘I hope’, as in YOU are HOPING, no-one else, just you,
          ‘they all’, as in ALL of the protesters marching, not just the violent ones.
          ‘get shot with rubber bullets’, as in they all get shot with rubber bullets.

          How exactly did you want that comment ‘interpreted’

           
  12. @OSLX

    How about a statement disassociating yourselves from any persons intent on violence who may turn up?

     
    • or rather, disassociating from the intent of violent action of any who may turn up.

       
  13. Scrap my comment about disassociating ~ I don’t actually like the thought of disassociating from anyone ~ regardless of their behaviour.

    I can separate a person from their behaviour and still love the person, whilst at the same time conveying that violence is unwise and is not the way forward.

    I know an ex-football-hooligan who was imprisoned for nearly killing a man. He was intent on going as far as he could that day.

    He told me that during his time in prison he came to realise that the gang had become his family ~ the place where he felt he belonged. He wanted to become accepted by them, so he engaged in the violent behaviour that got him the acceptance he was desperate for. There was a lot of rivallry within the gang to become the one of greatest honour amongst them ~ so this was the catalyst for the escalation of violence. The more extreme the violence the higher the acclaim in the group. It was like sibling rivallry in effect. Each one vying to be the one of greatest worth. Like children wanting to be Daddy’s favourite. Misguided? Yes. But expressing a real longing for an unmet need in their heart, nevertheless. Like orphans desperate for a loving Daddy.

    This man didn’t come from a broken home as one may expect, but from what we may consider a good home, with parents giving him the best they knew how. But, nevertheless, failing to provide him with the love he most needed.

    How many of us feel like orphans desperate for a place where we feel we belong in this world? A place where we feel worth as much as each other? A place where each one of us feels so loved that we don’t have any sense of needing to compete with each other?

    Do I want to disassociate from him ~ no! What he needs is love, not condemnation.

    Sorry about being off-topic, but wanted to amend my earlier comment, so I felt it best to post it here and not elsewhere.

    Here’s a thought ~ could it be the same motivating force at the heart of the drive for world domination by the 1%? Chew it over.

     
    • Really? Just needed love – wasn’t his fault he almost beat someone to death for supporting a different team? Sorry, but no matter how airy fairy your views, how, in any civilized society can that be condoned or even forgiven? Would you feel differently if the the guy he beat the crap out of was your son, brother, dad or husband? What if it was a woman, a child or someone of a different colour or religion? Would that be different or any more or less OK? And by all means go ahead and condone violent, destructive behavior; it only goes further to alienate yet more people from even listening to what you have to say (when you’ve decided that is (Loving the 100% can’t even seem to agree with themself).

       
      • Sorry, hit return post by mistake. What I wanted to add to the end was – everyone should take responsibility for their own life and actions and stop trying to pass the blame on to someone else.

         
      • @Andy
        Firstly, I was not claiming to speak on behalf of this movement, but merely expressing my own views.
        Secondly, I did not say that this behaviour is ok, but what I did set out to convey is that I do forgive it ~ and yes, however bad it may be.

         
        • I learnt the wisdom in the following words the hard way…

          “Matthew 7
          1DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.
          2For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.

          3Why do you stare from without at the very small particle that is in your brother’s eye but do not become aware of and consider the beam of timber that is in your own eye?

          4Or how can you say to your brother, Let me get the tiny particle out of your eye, when there is the beam of timber in your own eye?

          5You hypocrite, first get the beam of timber out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the tiny particle out of your brother’s eye.”

          If I could spare anyone else having to go the hard way, I would gladly do so… but it seems that it is the unavoidable route for many. My heart is with everyone.

           
          • I also learnt the hard way not to scoff at what I don’t yet understand.

             
          • Well Loving, you’re clearly a religious person. I am not, but each to their own. I will neither mock you for you beliefs or views nor try to inflict mine on you. However, please explain to me, if you will (I had a go at reading the bible a long time ago but came disinterested very quickly) what the bible says we should do with someone that, for example, beats someone to an inch of their life. Do we let them carry on and wait for justice from God or does it allow us to imprison them to keep the rest of society safe? If not, are these the same rules for all crimes (sins, if you prefer) and repeat offenders? If we are allowed to imprison or punish someone then surely we are ‘judging, criticizing and condemning others’. I for one am happy with the second scenario, just as I am happy to be judged, criticized and condemned for my actions. I blame nothing I’ve done on anyone else and take responsibility for all my actions in life (even those in partnership with alcohol that I’d rather forget!). Have your beliefs and faith if you must, even tell people about it but don’t try and force it on others nor arrogantly assume you are talking for the 99% (not aimed at you personally). Your representatives at Boris’ Q&A session the other day are declaring the movement in the name of God – seems to me that the majority of the worlds bloodshed has been in ‘his’ name. I’d suggest its best to be kept out of politics.

             
          • @Andy
            You’ve asked a lot of questions in your post. I will respond to the ones that are standing out to me first, and come back again if anything else moves me.
            Firstly, I WAS a religious person ~ but fortunately I’ve been rescued from it.
            What I mean by this is that, as you rightly say, a lot of the world’s bloodshed has been done in “his” name. He has been misrepresented to the world by religion and I can understand why the world, by and large, have rejected what they’ve seen. As Chazza said on another thread ~ many thousands of years have proven what’s gone before to be wrong (paraphrased). I was caught up in the same “religiosity” that so many are still caught up in, but I am now seeing how I have been so deceived and am sharing what I’ve learnt so far (it is a continuing journey after all) for any who want to hear .

            The problem with the bible is that we can interpret it to fit our own viewpoint. That has been the problem all along ~ hence the failure of the past thousands of years to get it right ~ the culmination of which (in my opinion) we are seeing in the world now.

            In answer to your question about how to deal with offenders:
            Firstly, I would say that I do recognise that there may be a need to restrain someone in some way who is causing harm either to themselves or others. I, personally, do not deny the wisdom in this.
            We do not need to condemn the person in order to do this. It can merely be a safety precaution.
            I’m not sure if Jesus taught anything specific on this ~ others may have more understanding than me.
            Jesus DID do something very telling though when presented with the woman caught in adultery. He said to all those wanting her condemned “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.” Every one of those who were accusing her left.

            I response to your comments about being happy to be judged and taking responsibility for your own actions ~ I have been there myself too ~ but… I eventually came to the place where I was shown that my actions were beyond my control. What I mean is they were being driven by an impulse that was stronger then my ability to control. I tried everything that I knew how and yet I still couldn’t get a grip. This is when I learnt the wisdom of letting go and letting God do it for me. I realised that he loves me inspite of not being able to be “good”. It took a very long for me to be able to accept this because it contravenes everything I understood about how it all works ~ but I am there now thankfully.
            Now if you can maintain control for yourself then good for you ~ but it was proven to me that I couldn’t. Believe it or not ~ that was the greatest gift of my life.
            When commenting upon a sinful woman who was lavishing love on him, Jesus said that “he who has been forgiven much, loves much” ~ that is me. In taking responsibility for my actions I have also had to take responsibility for not being able to fix myself to.

            In everything I say I only speak of my own views and am not claiming to represent the views of anyone else or the movement.

            I do not wish to enforce my views on anyone else, merely to share the wisdom I’ve learnt from my own experiences (as I say I’ve learnt the hard way) in case it can help anyone else.

            Thank you for your respect to not mock me for my views.

             
          • In order to further explain where I’m coming from, let me use an example and see where it goes.

            Let’s imagine that I am a paedophile. Now, it most likely wasn’t something I chose to be. It probably wasn’t my ambition when I was young or my chosen career. It was more likely an urge that started involuntary when I was young and grew until it overtook me. So, in my weakness I succumbed to the urges and violated and harmed innocent children. I may have tried to control myself in the early days, knowing that such behaviour is wrong, but the urges just proved too powerful and the sense of enjoyment was addictive. (I can personally relate to this in terms of alcohol as well as other addictions I have suffered).

            Now, let’s imagine that I get caught, I’m considered a danger to society and I’m imprisoned. Now, let’s imagine that I agree with this decision because I know that I cannot control the urges and that I would most likely re-offend if I were not restrained.

            Let’s now imagine that you say we should throw away the key because it would never be safe to let me out again. I may even agree with this, based on my track record and also having heard of those who have been released only to re-offend again.

            Now, let’s imagine that you say that its not fair that your tax money is spent on my upkeep in prison and that it would be a better option for me to die. You may even be so repulsed at what I’ve done, or hurt by it personally, that you think I deserve to die anyway. (I’m not suggesting that these are your personal views btw, but just using the extreme arguments here). I may even agree with this as I despise myself already and know that my life is of no use to anyone and that I am only being a burden to society. So, now I despise myself as being beyond cure and deserving of any compassion and fully agree that I deserve to die.

            Now, let’s imagine that in steps someone who says that that’s not what they want for me. They tell me that I am precious to them inspite of what I am. They realise that I am helpless to do anything about it myself, so they offer that in exchange for my life they will give me a new one ~ giving me a brand new start with the power to live free from the urges that have plagued me.

            What do I say? Thank you, but I don’t deserve it? Or, thank you, thank you, thank you!

            This has been my experience ~ not the paedophile bit, but the Saviour bit ~ I said thank you, thank you, thank you and accepted the new life.

            The last thing I wanted was to become one of them freaky Christian people walking round in Jesus-sandals. Every prejudice within me resisted it, but I just couldn’t resist Jesus himself. His love overwhelmed me back then and hasn’t stopped since. It’s only “his” love that has been able to fix me ~ nothing else has come close!

            I hope that hasn’t freaked you out too much ~ I know how distasteful this God-talk can be 🙂

            I have used an example here that I don’t claim to have an inside understanding of and so I hope that if anyone reading this is offended by my lack of understanding, that you will please forgive me.

             
  14. “the spectre of rubber bullets being used in this country against peaceful protesters”

    This is a dishonest and irresponsible comment from OLSX. The police said that rubber bullets would be on standby for potential use in the case of extreme disorder. Given the violence last year, the fire extinguisher incidents, the attacks on police and the deaths and vast disruption from the London riots this seems to be reasonable. To slander the police by claiming that this raises “the spectre of rubber bullets being used in this country against peaceful protesters” is a disgrace.

    You’ve chosen to focus not on your own message, not ondiscouraging violence on behalf of protesters but on stoking up anti-police sentiment.

    Shame on you

    By the way, “in cases of extreme disorder” the general public back these measures

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/2011/08/11/riot-polling/

     
    • Have to agree this is a fair comment from Dave !

      Should have made this an opportunity to boost the movements message by encouraging peaceful protest awareness.

      Easy………………in hindsight.

       
      • human of planet earth

        Thanks for that, I know you will not agree with a lot I say. I do feel that whilst many (perhaps most) within OLSX have genuine good intent any many valid complaints, this proxy war whereby OLSX is focussing on fighting (not physically) first St Pauls, then COLC, then the police is just undermining the cause, especially when nothing else of great value is coming from them.

        By the way, when the time comes to leave St Paul’s, OLSX probably has two choices.

        1. Resist eviction, fight the police, do a bit of vandalism, get arrested, be portrayed by the media and be seen by the public as a bunch of anarchists and criminals. Make the violence the topic of debate.

        or

        2. Leave peacefully, perhaps creating some sort of media spectacle (as the move would surely create interest). Use this to express your opinions and be seen as a breathe of fresh air for protest Make the cause the topic of debate.

        It’s OLSX’s choice

         
        • You may have noticed I can dumb down when demanded by dummies, but h.o.p.e.fully ( 🙂 ) I can occasionally add something useful to points of debate. So THANKS back at you.

          The point you make about who olsx are fighting has in my mind two trains of thought
          1, they did not choose to fight these entities as I am sure they were not on anyone directly involved’s mind. They became a battle yes, and they became necessary to ‘fight’.
          2, these battles although not chosen have given the movement a lot of crucial coverage in mainstream media, be it good or bad it has gone a long way to raising awareness in this country to the movement. And as a consequence created a lot more debate into their grievances.

          Personally I am unsure what a long term camp would achieve, but I would want it to have a ‘base camp’ so the ideas and ‘real democracy’ get the time it so needs to develop into something coherent.

           
          • I can see some credible ideas of reform coming out of this for our lethargic 99% to find digestable which seems to be one of the biggest hurdles at the moment. I believe we need radical change but most of us are too fearful of that, we need coaxing and that takes time.

            My fear for occupy is it gets sabotaged by the anti-movement movement !

             
          • Please don’t chose St Paul’s as your permanent base. It’s bankrupting the cathedral and greatly hindering its activities. Everyone wants a peaceful resolution and the clergy will never force through an eviction.

            “2, these battles although not chosen have given the movement a lot of crucial coverage in mainstream media, be it good or bad it has gone a long way to raising awareness in this country to the movement.”

            Good for “your” movement but they’ve also caused a lot of pain for real people.

             
          • Sorry JJL,
            when you say ‘bankrupt’ when referring to st. paul’s do you mean financially or MORALLY !

            They did after all try to have the camp forcefully evicted,
            and do you not think ‘the pain caused’ (assuming you are referring to the clergy that ‘resigned’) was indeed self inflicted, due I suggest to a momentary loss of christian morals. Or as I would h.o.p.e. is the case, it was their morals that prompted them to resign, in embarassment !

             
          • Why is it so surprising that St Paul’s needs money to pay its staff and to fund its activities. This makes it morally corrupt does it? The welfare of a loyal and hard working staff should be as important as the welfare of the campers outside (in my humble opinion). This is a source of the pain because you can’t support one without letting down the other in the current situation.

             
  15. Dear Occupy LSX

    Did you know that there is a UK band called ” BLAME THE BANKERS” who play a mixture of pop, blues, jazz and Latin? They were formed about six months ago and if in London would love to play for you – pass it around.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/blamethebankers

    Good luck and keep it going until victory!

    Best wishes

    “Blame the Bankers” Band

     
  16. Human of Planet Earth

    who or what is the anti movement movement?

     
    • sorry Dave it is
      those who want the occupy movement to go away of course.

       
  17. Will the Bankers foreclose on St. Paul?

    Will the City – People of London foreclose on St. Pauls?

    Will the electricity be closed off?

    Will the water be closed off?

    Who dares?

    St. Pauls is getting a lung full off O2.

    It will then fall back to being an irrelvant tourist attraction , with another page written into its history.

    The story is incomplete and the ink has yet to dry.

     
  18. I love the smell of tear gas in the morning !

     
  19. I’m extremely impressed with your writing abilities as well as with the layout on your blog. Is that this a paid subject matter or did you customize it your self? Either way keep up the excellent high quality writing, it is rare to see a great weblog like this one nowadays..

     

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