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Important Occupy London call for welfare assistance

 

After just over two weeks, our tented city standing in the protective shadow of St Paul’s Cathedral is a becoming a real community. But we are still part of London and we share some of the problems of that great city.

London is the 5th wealthiest city in the world and one of the world’s major financial centres – yet, despite this apparent prosperity and technological progress, there are still Londoners without homes, structure and support. What happens in London every day is merely a reflection of the increasing global disparity between rich and poor and unfair distribution of wealth.

At the same time, the austerity measures imposed in the UK where tax revenues have been used to fund bonuses have led to a further decline in the quality of our society. Essential services are being cut or privatised and those with real and complex needs are being left out in the cold. Now more than ever, those who are homeless or have mental and physical health problems or addiction issues need support from the communities they live in.  We are all part of the 99 per cent.

OccupyLSX is trying be a welcoming space. We hope that people will take the time to talk to each other, help each other out and overcome their differences to create a better society.

This means that our camp is becoming a beacon for those who feel that they do not have a stake in society, for vulnerable and marginalised people. They and we are all part of the 99 per cent.

It is often said that you can judge a society by how it treats its most vulnerable members; Occupy London aims to create a better society, but we need your help.

We will not abandon or ignore the most vulnerable members of our society. We are aware that many vulnerable people are coming to the camp (including people with mental health issues, alcohol and drug problems) and we believe that we have to address these problems head on rather than the ad hoc fashion we have to date. If this camp is to aim to be part of creating a better and more just society we need to tackle these issues pro-actively.

What we intend to do:

  • We will found a Welfare Centre within the bounds of our camp at St Paul’s, staffed and supported by volunteers with specialist expertise
  • We will provide access to and signpost mental health advice services, alcohol and drug addition services, rehousing services and more

What we need:

  • We appeal to all those with relevant skills and experience in social work, counselling, drug and alcohol services, welfare, housing and mental health issues to donate whatever time they can
  • Also, if you have more time available and would like to help out on a daily/nightly basis, please contact us to offer this crucially required support
  • We encourage those who are affected by the issues we are discussing to use this as an opportunity to share your own experiences, express your ideas and organise together for a better future. We will be hosting events, discussions and debates looking at the important issues through our Outreach and Tent City University

How can you get involved?

  • Phone – 0845 299 6175
  • Email: welfareolsx@gmail.com
  • Leave a message for Welfare in our Information Tent at OccupyLSX
 

278 Responses to “Important Occupy London call for welfare assistance”

  1. Listen you clowns, can you not get it into your heads that 99 percent of 60+ million, is a hell of a lot mre than the few hundred supporters you have at present. You cannot keep making the claim that you are the 99 percent, it’s a lie, pure and simple, and will alienate more and more people, the longer you persist with it!

     
    • Jock Strap,

      Read the statement will you, then read it again so it is perfectly clear, then try and comprehend it, THEN comment.

      It says “PART of the 99%”

      It does not say we represent ALL 99%

      Your apology will be gratefully received for twisting a fact and calling people, honest people, liars.

       
      • Ermm, no, it says this. pasted and copied from the original statement……We are all of us the 99 per cent. You do some reading!

         
        • Don’t argue with a fool. The spectators can’t tell the difference.

           
          • Don’t wrestle with pigs, you both end up dirty and the pig enjoys it.

             
        • WOW it does engage,
          Are you running out of grenades ?
          Could this be a surrender to what you know, (and I know it is deep down inside you) that the ‘campers’ although I think your spelling is not quite right here, CAMPaigners , you refer to so derogatorily, are having a positive influence on you ?

          However there is obviously still more work to do………….

          Do you actually READ or just use your imagination ?

          “We are all of us the 99 per cent.”
          and
          “They and we are all part of the 99 per cent.”

          Now excuse my assumption but I would guess you are not one of the richest most financially powerful 1% in the world are you ?
          Therefore “we are all of us the 99%”

          Why do you struggle with comprehending these words so much ? Why do you keep twisting the words to suit your own scepticism ?
          It does not say WE REPRESENT the 99% and it does not say we speak for ALL the 99%.

           
    • The 1% and 99% actually comes from the fact that 1% of the richest people in the world own 40% of the planets wealth. Further more, 10% of the richest people account for 85% of global assets. If you think that’s fair or even just, then you have chosen a very suitable handle.

       
  2. jock strap – dont you realise that you are one of the one percent, those who consistently sit on their arses and knock those trying to change things. I believe that 99% of the general public are sick and tired of corporate greed – however you choose to define it.

     
  3. Bakerman, you believe what you want. I would just point out that 99 percent of 60 million, is 59.4 million, and I doubt that very much that you have the support of that many people. But, hey, if you want to live with, and encourage that lie, it’s up to you!

     
    • @Jock Strap, the 99 per cent is just a figure of speech to describe how wealth is accumulated by a very small number of people and isn’t being redistributed effectively.

      Nobody claims to speak for the ’99 per cent’, but most people ‘are’ the 99 per cent.

      I have not been able to take part in many, many assemblies, but I generally feel more represented by these people (based on initial statements and calls for change), than I do by the 600-odd MPs who claim to represent me in Parliament.

      I can safely say that I have never voted for any of them (and I do vote).

      It’s all semantics though imo. The movement is about uniting.

      I haven’t honestly met anyone who thinks the banking crisis was a great thing and that everything should stay them same and I think a lot of people in Britain are on the same page.

       
      • Well said Broken Shaman, saved my the effort of a lot of typing.

        I would just like to add that thanks to the media’s coverage or lack there of, many people are still unaware of what is going on.

        Plus, unfortunately there are those who struggle to wake up to the truth, to admit that everything that they and their kin believed in for so long was BS. They’re not really fighting us, but their own perceptions of reality.

        Hug em

         
        • sorry Stephen R Moore,

          but there is NO WAY I am going to hug a Jock Strap,
          especially one with a stinking attitude !
          🙂

           
        • I think we really need to draw the publics attention to the fact that the politicians no longer represent the needs of the people that voted them in place – they are the puppets of the Mega Rich investment bankers, and the global co-orporations. If I was an artist I would paint a huge picture with all the well known politicians (of all parties) depicted as puppets on strings with Goldman Sachs & co, and cocola, vodaphone, and other global giants pulling the strings. Pictures speak a thousand words and are often instantly understood.

           
          • Jockstrap, did you know that Vodaphone was let of 450million pounds of tax recently as were many other global corporations. They also hide the true size of their profits in off-shore bank accounts and by other dubious means. If they paid the true amount of tax there would be no need for cuts. In fact there would be so much money left over there could be an improvement in public services in order to address the needs of the most vulnerable in society that were mentioned in the above article.

             
          • I bow to you Josie, not in an hierarchy sort of way, just in acknowledgement of your posts.
            Well done you.

             
  4. 99% indeed! But some are still sleeping.. WAKE UP JOCK!

     
  5. I like this announcement.

     
  6. Just because millions of people can’t afford to leave their current commitments to go camp out doesn’t mean they don’t support the cause. I’m at college and working part time, and have not yet found time to go down to the site and show my support in person. I have however supported the Occupy movement from the beginning and have been sharing links whenever possible, and generally raising awareness in any circles I am a part of. I think you’ll find a huge, HUGE number of people support this cause.

    Also, stop arseing around with numbers. However accurate or inaccurate the figure of 99% may be isn’t the point. It’s symbolic, and relates more to the world-wide distribution of wealth than necessarily support.

     
  7. The claim that ‘we are the 99%’ is a statement about the disproportionate distribution of wealth not how many people are occupying St Pauls you fucking moronic piece of shit.

     
    • Now now, even moronic pieces of excrement need some love and a hug. Plus I’m sure that it will frustrate the hell out of them if you do not rise to their comments.

       
      • Sorry guys if the only response you can make to someone challenging your views, involves foul, abusive language, but it does prove a point to the watching world!!

         
        • Jock Strap: if you’ll have a look at Broken Shaman’s response to your post above you will see a calm and considered response to your initial assertion.

          I don’t condone A.H.’s calling you a name, but I suspect that your assertion that ‘our only response is to be abusive’ is disingenuous, especially in light of the fact that you received a very polite response nearly an hour earlier.

          I don’t condone A.H’s outburst, but I cannot blame him for being angry, because your behaviour on this board for several days has been aggressive, provocative and disruptive to constructive debate.

          I’m going to repeat Broken Shaman’s polite reply to you here, just in case you missed it:

          “@Jock Strap, the 99 per cent is just a figure of speech to describe how wealth is accumulated by a very small number of people and isn’t being redistributed effectively.

          Nobody claims to speak for the ’99 per cent’, but most people ‘are’ the 99 per cent.

          I have not been able to take part in many, many assemblies, but I generally feel more represented by these people (based on initial statements and calls for change), than I do by the 600-odd MPs who claim to represent me in Parliament.

          I can safely say that I have never voted for any of them (and I do vote).

          It’s all semantics though imo. The movement is about uniting.

          I haven’t honestly met anyone who thinks the banking crisis was a great thing and that everything should stay them same and I think a lot of people in Britain are on the same page.”

           
        • Jock Strap,

          Pots and kettles springs to mind,

          Hope thats not offensive to your deaf ears, or are they blinkered like your eyes when you read selected bits of someones comment ?

           
        • @ Jock Strap,

          And you are certainly proving your point to the world,

          although I thought that you thought that hardly anyone was interested !

           
    • @ A.H.

      Got to pull you up here I am afraid……

      you said “……piece of s**t”

      I dont think he is a ‘piece’ I think he is a ‘ whole’ !!

       
      • And therein lies your problem! Please continue, hurl abuse at me and anyone that does not agree with you. It is really important tha the real world understands what you are!!

         
        • Please stop trolling.

           
          • Oh sorry, I forgot, nobody can challenge the ‘view of the few’. Go for it guys, make complete asses of yourselves, but always remember you only represesnt a small minority!!

             
          • You can and have, in a provocative and aggressive way – in the very first comment to this article, in fact.

            Some people have politely responded to your points. You have ignored them.

            Some people have reacted angrily to your tone. You have taunted them.

            Therefore, I put it to you that you do not seek discussion, you merely seek to cause upset.

             
        • Jockstrap is totally correct on this !

          Hurling abuse at all & sundry is not the “way forward”. Anyone over 40 who reads this post will be amazed at language being meted out to any opposing viewpoint & will understandably consider the movement to be an immature crowd for whom this is there first piece of “life experience”.
          Shows distinct lack of leadership & vision, even before one challenges the practical aspects of that which you claim to be trying to achieve !

          On a further point, the camp now intends to provide professional counselling services on site for a range of social / economic problems ? Make sure that the people giving the advice are genuine professionals in their field & that they are sufficiently re-insured. If you give treatment to someone suffering from a mental disorder & he then goes and does something untoward e.g. suicide, arson, assault, then the camp will probably be liable & be sued by family, victims, govt. etc.

          Great to have ideas but you need some practical background in running a clinic etc. before you can go “offering assistance”. It would be better to ask an established organisation to voluntarily set-up a “sub-camp” at St. Paul’s rather than go at it in a piecemeal fashion. At least they would have existing liability cover.

           
          • Roger,

            I half agree with you.

            Certainly helping the homeless with mental health and substance abuse issues is a professional responsibility that shouldn’t be taken on lightly. But there are charities and institutions out there whose job it is to help, so hopefully the camp can build partnerships with them.

            But it’s truly revealing that we have such large numbers of homeless people with these problems while the Church sits on billions in assets and the city financies pay themselves massive bonuses at the tax payers expense. Tax-payers money and church money should be spent on the poor and the needy not on bailing out banks !

             
          • Roger, I agree with you that it is important not to be provoked no matter what, if one is to remain peaceful. Perhaps someone deliberately needling on this forum can be used as a test in keeping calm in the face of provocation? I don’t think, though, that people are hurling abuse at ‘all and sundry.’ I have read the posts made by Jock Strap last night, and, to my mind, this poster does not want to engage, but simply to disrupt. The first comment to this post about vulnerable people needing help, which jock strap made, was about the use of the term 99%. It is a vaguely valid point, but this was hardly the post to raise it in, and the complaint was answered well by broken shaman. I can see how frustrating that can be, but rising to the bait is always going to be counter productive.

            What does one do in that case? It is not possible to engage with someone who does not want to engage, and the best policy may simply be to ignore them. One has no duty to respond to people. If one does not engage, though, the accusation then is of not listening, not being true to the spirit of the occupy movement. I am not sure that the spirit of the movement is that you have to get into conversation with people who have no interest in engaging though. It seems to me that the idea is to try to find some common ground, not to waste time with people who are not interested in engaging with the issues that occupy is trying to bring into awareness.

            Perhaps the best policy then is to answer in a calm, factual way, and then leave it. If they are interested in engaging with the issues, then engage with them, if they aren’t don’t.

            My advice, for what it is worth, would be for those that swore at jock strap yesterday, to say sorry. It does not mean that you agree with them in what they said, or that they were not trying to be deliberately provocative, but it would be a sign of great strength. It would speak volumes.

            Your main point, Roger, is a very valid one. The ‘occupy movement’ must make sure that this is managed properly, with trained professionals. In fairness, they have stated that they want ‘qualified people to offer their time.’ I wonder if this is something that they might be able to work together with the church on? Your idea of them trying to find an organisation to set up a sub-camp is a good one, and I am sure they would welcome that!

            The occupy camp has made the decision that their protest is about staying put – I can see why some people find this annoying, personally I find it admirable. The serious issues they are trying to bring to light are largely ignored by our media, and our politicians. I count myself as being fairly well informed, but had no idea how lacking in democracy or accountability the City is, yet it’s decisions have a huge impact on all of our lives. If the camp had not remained there, these issues would simply not have become a part of the national debate. Given that the camp has made the decision to stay – it is obviously going to face challenges such as the issues raised in this posting. This is showing some of the problems that our society is increasingly more happy to sweep under the carpet than confront in a compassionate way. Again, I personally find it admirable that the occupy movement should not ignore the problems, but try to find a solution, even though this will put a strain on them as they try to raise awareness of the unfairness and corruption in our system.

             
          • @Jock Strap,
            I apologise if I have used language aimed at you that upsets you, and to anyone else reading my comments. Sorry.

             
          • (((human planet of earth)))

             
          • Ooops ~ that hug was meant was meant for “human of planet earth”!

             
          • @ A hig hug

            I am feeling it, thank you, here is one back (((A big hug)))

            and btw just call me h.o.p.e. 🙂

            I will call you a.b.h. …………hmmmm maybe not, forget that idea !!! 😉

             
          • oopps ‘A hig hug’ oopps

             
          • ‘On a further point, the camp now intends to provide professional counselling services on site for a range of social / economic problems ? Make sure that the people giving the advice are genuine professionals in their field & that they are sufficiently re-insured. If you give treatment to someone suffering from a mental disorder & he then goes and does something untoward e.g. suicide, arson, assault, then the camp will probably be liable & be sued by family, victims, govt. etc.’

            Roger, the camp does not intend to provide these support services, but it clearly does have a desire to respond to the issues and difficulties that people have. This is good surely? And if the response is to start panicking about being sued/liable etc then as is the case with many of our statutory services then the most important aspects of the support needed (care, compassion, inclusion, acceptance) will be lost

             
        • Are you boris johnson? or his brother or something? or just bored? These guys are out there actively trying to do something they believe in, if your so pro capitalist why not start your own occupation with the 0.00001 percent ,or whatever it is, of people who love the inequality in the world

           
  8. I would like to say, that I am a person that goes down to the camp and normally just sits on the steps, I am probably one of the people that this post is trying to help. I appreciate that they are trying to accommodate and accept people like me, when society just does not want to even try, or only tries until they lose patience, so never gains the understanding that is needed.

    I go there because it is the most safest place I feel in London. This is because of the people that are there. They are wonderful. I have at last spoken to some, instead of just sitting there. Hopefully I will eventually gain improvments in my health sufficiently to join the movement. Funnily enough, being around positive people is doing my health a great deal of good in itself.

    There is such a lot of negativity in this world that causes the ill health. A great deal of stress means no one has any time or patience anymore for anyone else so people are not treated with compassion or like human beings anymore.

    The camp community is what I would love my own community to become. I live instead somewhere that I am isolated and nobody sees, except a supermarket cashier.

    Here, I feel that I belong somewhere for the first time in years.

    Thank you for being there and I hope that St Paul’s drops the law suit altogether. A lot of good could come out of this. There is a lot of teachings that need to occur and it would be the best base to do this.

     
    • Well said, hope to see you Saturday.
      Love the supermarket comment; depression will be the second most common reason why people can be productive. How can anyone not in the 1% be happy in a society that measures success in money and not love / happiness.
      This movement / revolution is great on so many levels.
      Get well

       
    • such an inspiring post and a testimonial to how much is being achieved at St Paul’s xx

       
    • @ HMoS,

      I wish you well.

       
    • Hidden member,
      Thank you so much for your honest and heartfelt post. This movement is about making a difference in society and in my view even if our movement makes no other changes to society other than helping one or two people to feel more included, more cared for, more understood and less alone then something wonderful will have come of it. I wish you all the best in the future and hope your health continues to improve.

       
    • (((Hidden Member of Society))) ~ You are seen, even though you are hidden. I see you! Know that you are greatly loved and valued. The longing of your heart will be fulfilled and you will know that you are precious and treasured.

       
  9. This is excellent news. Well done! BUT whilst we still subsist beneath a bureaucracy which is meant to provide all of these things for us, we must remember we do this in spite of them and because we value human life first, and that this inhuman system does not.

     
  10. Get a lift share program going guys/gals if there isn’t one allready. That way people who might not ordinarily be able to make the journey from around the country, due to financial restraints, would be able to participate also! 😉

     
    • I’m waiting expectantly!

       
  11. I trust that if you all continue with your tented city, that you will all voluntarily pay council tax on your tented abodes. After all, it’s only fair that you should pay your share of the cost of services provided in the area, and not be a burden on others!

     
    • What do you want, and how do you think writing on here in this manner can help you achieve it?

       
      • What are you saying JB? I’m not the one that wants anything, other than that those who seek to cause disruption, pay for it!!

         
        • So you want “those who seek to cause disruption, [to] pay for it”?

          How do you think writing on here in this manner will help you achieve this?

           
        • @ Jock Strap
          We finally agree on something
          We want those who cause disruption, and crisis dont forget, to pay for it as well !
          🙂

           
      • JB, the guy wants you to engage with him and that’s exactly what people are doing. If you all stop, so will he. Eventually!

         
        • Jock Strap is an attention seeker. He’s in need of some mental health support services as well, I think.

          Either that or he’s being paid by someone to be a nuisance.

          Either way he deserves of empathy and compassion, not our abuse. But he does earn our frustration, that’s for sure !

           
    • Services such as… ?

      Rubbish collections? There are no bins in the area as I can see (no wonder the streets are so scruffy – though this isn’t an excuse),yet the camp have organised recycling facilities. Waste is removed at £150 a load as I recall. I presume the camp pays for this out of the many donations they have been given by the very fact that the cost was raised at an assembly I attended weeks ago. Presumably, passers by are also using the bins as there are none in the area, so it would seem that they are actually providing a public service!!!

      Toilets? They hired some in.

      The Police? I’m sure the Police could stand down tbh and that would be fine, but they have chosen to hang around despite placing CCTV and what looks a bit like a listening device to me (can’t confirm) in the area and it being in central London which is coated in CCTV. They are, of course, guarding Paternoster Square, which is owned by Mitsubushi, so I guess we should expect that they are paying for what is essentially a private security firm.

      Anyway, it transpires that the City of London is run by corporations, so I guess the very least they can do is pay for the effects of their gambling and tax evasion. They don’t seem to have paid much else and a lot of them are owned by taxpayers, of which there are definitely some at the camp.

      Tell you what. I’ll donate another £50 next time I’m down to subsidise City of London’s woeful litter bin situation.

       
    • Jock Strap,

      Am I getting on your nerves yet ?

      How about this for you to ignore and not reply to………….

      You are jealous of the 1% and are angry they have not invited you to join them, you cant vent your anger at them because you just like us, are obviously too meaningless for them to care about. So what do you do, the same as, (sorry to have to swear at you here) most of the 99% do, and that is take out their anger on the ones they love.
      Were here for you Jock, Stephen even offered you a hug earlier, when your ready when you have calmed down, were here, open arms and all that.

      And no need to reply Jock, I know you are sorry.

       
      • Alleged human of the planet earth, are you sure that’s the right planet??

        Au contraire, I’m in no way jealous of what you call the 1 percent. In fact, I admire most of them for having the ability to make something of their lives. That they were able to do that, reflects their ability. The fact that you resent it, reflects your envy!

         
        • Do not feed the troll.

           
        • @ Jock Strap,
          No need for alleging I am a human of planet earth, after all, are there other kinds ? oh yeah, the in-human !
          Which are you I have to wonder.

           
        • @ Jock Strap,
          the ‘right’ planet you say
          absolutely no, the ‘right planet is full of 1%ers,
          I am from the centre planet where humans live,
          the in-humans live on the ‘right’ planet,
          where do you live out of interest ?

           
        • jock
          you are trying too hard ot hate,fund Jesus and put him in your heart. He loves you.

           
  12. Funny how much I identify with hidden member of society’s comment and my reasons for going to St Paul’s and also my local Occupy In Brighton are very similar. Despite outwardly appearing to be a person with a lot going on (kids, busy life, family and friends) etc I feel exactly the same and in my heart know that the loneliness I feel in my day to day life is a space that can be filled by meaningful engagement with kind and compassionate people, and also with a cause that I feel 100% inspired and committed to. The sad thing about our society is that this ‘kindness and compassion’ for others seems to have been lost as a common value, or as a human attribute and this I believe is one of the effects of the world of cut throat capitalism and one of the very issues that we as supporters of Occupy need to address if we are to reach out to others, to engage people with a vision of how different the world could be, and ultimately bring about change.

     
  13. My dear Revolutionaries.

    We must not be confused about the problem and its solution.
    The problem is the Power to create money out of thin air by a private corporation, and the solution is the abolition of this power, into the hands of the Government.
    The bank of England is a private corporation.
    Please, please educate yourselves on History and precisely what is going on.
    It is a big scam, and the only way we can truly overcome these powerful wealthy interests is by truly UNDERSTANDING the whole scam.
    Please visit my website where I have compiled all relevant information for the layman.
    Watch the documentaries and videos to gain and understanding of what is going on, and how we are all being duped.
    Knowledge is power, and we the people, once we fully understand the full extent of the SCAM, Will prevail.
    I cannot stress it enough we EACH need to thoroughly UNDERSTAND exactly what is going on, I’ve been listening to the radio and TV and there is MUCH confusion over the direction and the message of the occupy movement. This needs to change.
    Get CLEAR on the SOLUTION to the problem. The solution to the problem needs to be placed on a Monetary Reform page on this website.
    You can find such a link on my website below.

    Please watch the videos on the problem AND the proposed solution.
    We ALL need to be clear on the message, and sing from the same hymn sheet!
    Find the information on my website and all over youtube. http://www.moneyexplained.net

    We shall prevail!
    Educate yourselves.

     
  14. This is the REAL Solution, occupylsx needs to update your “Initial Statements” page to show these actions which will free the people of the Debt based monetary system designed to enslave the masses.

    Source: http://www.moneyexplained.net/?page_id=183

    Monetary Reform

    The Solution:

    1. Government must retake the power to issue its own currency without debt and not leave it to a private bank cartel to have a monopoly on the creation of currency/money. Pay off the Debt with debt free Notes.
    2, Abolish Fractional reserve banking. As the Debt is paid off, the reserve requirements of all banks and financial institutions would be raised proportionally at the same time.
    3. Withdraw the UK from the IMF, BIS and the World Bank.
    4. Control the amount of money in circulation as Guernsey do.
    Thereby controlling inflation and not stealing our wealth through the stealth tax of inflation.

    The bank of North Dakota already creates its money for the people without debt. Study them.

    And thus the evil Debt based fractional reserve Money system will be no more and the people will be free from the shackles of these criminals.

     
    • Before point one, imo, you have to regain representation in politics, so the decision makers start acting in the interests of people not parties and their ‘friends and donors’.

      Once you reclaim politics, everything else becomes a possibility.

       
  15. This is great, well done, I am sure that you will get the help to facilitate this that you have asked for. Just a note to say that since Bristol Occupy has become a drink and drug free “safe space” this week the camp has remained a sanctuary for those people who were drinking etc, whilst becoming better functioning and more welcoming to others. Call the camp number (its up in your info tent) if you would like to discuss how this is being implemented. x

     
    • GOOD ON YOU BRISTOL !!

       
  16. You paint a picture of a society I want to belong to. No politician has ever done that.
    Thank you.

     
    • I think its doing more than painting the picture now ~ I see that its becoming the reality. It is very attractive.

       
  17. This is amazing, having suffered from mental health issues and addiction, I am so pleased to see this taking place. I am recovered now although will always have to work hard at being well, and intend to come down and help out with what I can. Society does nothing to help people get out of situations they might find them selves in, often as a direct result of society failing them.

    Addiction and mental health are stigmatised, people are offered little help, many types of treatment aand help are not offered at all.

    As a result of my health problems I suffer from anxiety, and rarely sit still or stay calm and relax. On Saturday the 15th October I can honestly say that for the first time in 10 years I sat on the steps of St Paul’s and was calm and at peace with myself. All the stress and worry society brings me (money, health, career) were irrelevant, my focus was on the hear and now, the issue we are facing as a nation, as a planet.

     
  18. Good luck guys. I think you are doing great stuff in highlighting the shocking abuses of power by our Politicians and the bankers. Keep up the good work.

    Ima

     
  19. I’m glad this movement seems to be helping/inspiring many people. It is how humanity should be as a whole. Helping and understanding, rather than judging and outcasting.

    We are starting to get off out stomachs and stop crawling, and we are learning to walk as a people.

    We are learning what it means to truly live rather than simply existing.

    Let us break/shatter this illusion of the world being a shitty place, that the media portrays 24/7 and let us embark on a journey towards a brighter tomorrow, together as a whole, made up of 7 billion unique individuals!

    No-one left behind!

     
    • Yes ~ we are the 100% ~ no-one left behind!

       
  20. So this welfare centre. I assume it will be staffed with certified professionals, and will provide a service that can be administered over the weeks months or years needed by the individual?

    And how will drug and alcohol abuse and mental ilness be tackled proactively by this sort of arrangement?

    How will you ensure that the service you intend to provide will be safe and up to the standard a registered charity would be obliged to provide?

    Is the medical cure for these ills a fairer society?

     
    • It might sound cliche ~ but its unfailing love that will bring healing ~ not programs.

       
    • Harry – your text gives the impression there is only 1 way to deal with these issues? For example I know many addicts who would testify all they neede to stop using drugs after years of addiction was talking in a group with like minded people who had shared the same experience. You don’t need qualified proffessional for that.

      That said I am sure occupyLSX will look to gain as much expertise and proffessional help as possible.

       
    • @ HARRY

      Thats why they have asked for help !

       
  21. Please don’t respond to time wasters, example: ‘JOCK STRAP’ who’s intention is to discredit the forum and clutter it up with nonesense.

     
  22. 99pc is a stupid construct devised by the usual feckless angry brigade who cant see the wood for the trees. I’ve heard many of their exaggerated number try and articulate their grievances and demands, and not one has displayed a grasp of economic reality let alone democracy. The hypocritical arrogance of this tiny group of wasters, many of whom are privileged by birth if not education, is breathtaking. They can’t even target their protests accurately. Pathetic. But well done in getting a few vicars to resign. Where’s a decent plague of rats when you need one…

     
    • We humans, have become a plague of rats have we not, devouring as much as we can as quick as we can.

       
      • and when there is not enough to go round, the strongest rats eat the weakest ones………..sounds familiar dont you think ?

         
    • Haha, Nice try.

      I’m sure if no one did anything to make these necessary changes we’d have a plague of rats along soon enough.

      As well as war with iran/whoever else gets in our way, increasing unemployment, decreasing social cohesion, increased homelessness… etc etc etc the list goes on…

      You said…

      “The hypocritical arrogance of this tiny group of wasters, many of whom are privileged by birth if not education, is breathtaking”

      Who are you talking about here, the people making sacrifices to go highlight the worlds inequalities, or the people creating the worlds inequalities? I know which group I think your description fits.

      You also said

      “But well done in getting a few vicars to resign” This statement not only shows a lack of understanding about the nature of the protest and the church’s muddled reaction to it, but it shows a lack of respect for men of honour and integrity who resigned because they couldn’t support the party line of the church any longer.

      Plus… You’re a tool… a tool of the 1% sent here to annoy us.

       
  23. This is brilliant, a great initiative and I will make call outs for people with the correct skills to come and support. Hidden Member of Society, thank you for the post, it really moves me. I am there every day and to know what effect we are having in this way is phenomenal. Makes me proud of the camp beyond belief. It is said that to bring down a rotten system, you have to create a better one that makes the former obsolete. This is happening.

    Incidentally: DONT FEED THE TROLLS!

     
  24. Cheese Cheese glorious cheese

     
  25. “alcohol and drug addition service” – I would like a bottle of vodka and some marijuana please.

     
    • Mike, I suspect this is exactly the reason this bunch of reprobates are her in the first place

       
      • *here

         
        • Hmmmm. I wonder how nested these comments can get…

           
          • Pretty nested

             
  26. GET A JOB YOU BUNCH OF LOSERS!

     
    • I HAVE A JOB. GET AN EDUCATION AND LEARN ABOUT CAPS LOCK.

       
      • Don’t feed the troll.

         
  27. There is so much hatred on here why don’t those who are not interested in the PEACEFUL protests go and vent their anger somewhere else and leave this website to the people who are interested in making a difference, who do know what is really going on and who are not too greedy to care about the welfare of other people who share the planet.

     
    • Perhaps the people who are criticising the movement believe that they are the ones who know what is really going on and feel that occupy is a dangerously naive movement that, should it get its way, will cause more harm than good.

       
      • Sadly there seems to be little other than name calling in response to any opposing opinions posted on this web site. A few people camping out making peaceful protest will have little short term and no long term impact on the vast majority of lives. It worries me immensely though now there is talk of helping people with serious issues. I’m sure there are very few people (bankers included) that do not feel these individuals should be given care and assistance however, I have the firm belief that this should be left to the professionals and not naive, if well intentioned, amateurs who are unlikely to be around for long. Instead would it not be a better idea to spend some of the time you obviously have raising money for some of the charities that know what they are doing and likely to be able to provide some sort of continuing support?

         
        • @Andy,
          If the ‘campaigners’ are so insignificant as you and a small few others seem to believe, then why bother yourself in here. Why dont you toddle off to your mission of keeping the 1% propped up. We really are not worth your time are we ?
          Bye.

           
          • Hello again human. Glad to see a less abusive response. I may not agree with the majority of what I’ve gleaned that you seem to be protesting about, however it doesn’t mean I’m not interested to hear other points of view.
            What honestly really does concern me is people meddling in areas they do not understand which will directly affect other peoples lives. Fair enough point from the the chap (I assume, apologies if your a lady) that has posted below and every case is an individual. However there are many different types of mental illness / addiction and, although the ‘professional’ approach may not suit all, I think it can be very, very dangerous for someone (even with the best intentions) to interfere with. I, sadly, have had close personal experience of this and believe firmly that this is best left to those that have trained for years and know what they are doing. By all means go about your protest and hand out food etc. to those that need it while your here but leave the serious stuff to the professionals.
            I’ll toddle off now to support myself and family.

             
          • @Andy,
            A respectful response from you
            I in turn will grant you the same.

            My understanding of the statement at the top of this thread was the ‘camp’ were asking for help for the ones who were obviously drawn to the campaigners at st. paul’s / lsx. It is a ‘flaw’ that people willing to help the lesss fortunate will draw in the less fortunate, And I imagine, given the nature of most of the campaigners that I also admittedly imagine, actually want to try and help.

            Hence the call for help, as I read it.

            It was not an announcement that they were about to open a back street clinic, as has been implied by a few. I believe the people at st’ paul’s are on the whole genuine, and, are trying their damnedest to do the right thing as they see it.
            Some are concerned their actions, as in the campaigners, may have a detrimental effect on their lives, as in those against the campaigners. This concern I think is justified, but what I cannot accept as justification is the total dis-regard for people who for no profit of any kind, let alone financial, want to do the right thing for another human being that is obviously not fitting in to mainstream society. I am physically not there, and am not sure I would be as accommodating as they want to be. They did not go there to set up a clinic I am sure. I think they need a break and some, no, a lot of credit for trying to do the right thing.

            You may or may not have noticed my posts on various threads, they tend to be defensive in the main. I think this is partly because I am not there physically on site supporting and partly because I have a built in trait to defend the ones being attacked, even more so when the attacked are trying to do the right thing.
            I am happy to debate with anyone on a topic, although my ‘educated’ knowledge, which often gets in the way I believe, can be lacking in comparison. Nevertheless, I still find myself defending the campaigners against a barrage of negativity, for no more educated a reason than I FEEL they are trying to do the right thing.
            These are gut feelings on the whole, because I am realising more and more from these ‘chat’ rooms, that facts and statistics and historical data and quotes out of context are just as reliable as my gut feeling.
            I understand your concern about ‘people meddling in areas they do not understand’, I although idealogical am also realistic enough to know that should we get some of the radical changes we dream of, they will be painful transitions. But my preference is for short term pain rather than long term suffering. As for the ‘lack of understanding’ who really knows, the gambling ‘bankers’ ? I think most peoples understanding, as in you and I, is based on what we think we know and not on a total understanding; therefore can any of us comment with any real educated authority ? a few maybe but they tend not to be ‘posting’ in these chat threads I would hazard to guess. So that always brings me back to gut feeling, which says, not for my personal sake i.e. short term, but certainly for my childrens sake, That I should support the desire for change, even if the detail of change has not been worked out,
            YET.

             
        • It’s great to hear that all these bankers are so compassionate. Maybe they can make up the massive shortfall the mental health and rehab charities are facing due to the cuts in funding allocations for these very charities that all these people are supposed to be depending on.

          Maybe they can find the funding required to undo the cuts in mental health services in the NHS?

          Thanks to the 1%, untrained amateurs are all some people have to help them so instead of proselytising, given that you are so immensely worried, maybe you can do something to help.

           
          • Morning all, hope everyone had a lovely weekend.
            Firstly, Mr Duffy, the more you earn the more you pay in tax and national insurance, therefore the more you contribute the ‘system’ and NHS. So, for that alone they/ we are ‘helping more’ as you rather sarcastically suggest. I agree the NHS is not ideal (though considerably better than the health care provided for the majority of the worlds population) as well as hopelessly mis-managed and over subscribed. Likewise the welfare system suffers the same woes. Neither of these I believe is not the fault of the ‘bankers’ (though you’ll all probably find some way of blaming them).
            And for your information yes, I do do more to help but that is entirely my business and nothing to do with this discussion. My political and social views are very obviously different to yours but for this point I don’t really see that as particularly relevant. My point, which seems to be missed (and thank you human for a very thoughtful and engaging response) is that, however well meaning your intentions (and I have no doubt that they are) there are some things best left to the professionals. Forgive me if I misinterpret the statement above but, to me at least, it looks like there are some very grandiose ideas with will result in biting off more than you can chew. This has the very REAL (not idealistic, utopian dreams) potential to hurt the people you are trying to help. As pointed out by Paul there are massive shortfalls in the funding for professional and long term care. I think you’ll find my suggestion was that you turn your well meaning efforts to funding these people rather than, either naively or arrogantly, saying ‘we can do that’.

             
          • And a good morning to you too ANDY,
            and thank you for thanking me,
            ‘sincerity r us’

             
          • My pleasure human. It was nice to get a thoughtful, articulated response addressing some of the points I raised. Although I may not agree with all you say, I appreciate at least one person spending the time to try and explain their views rather than just randomly ranting. The thanks was meant in a sincere way, even if it may not accepted as such.

             
          • Andy,
            Absolutely received it in a sincere way.
            Tricky with just words, that old problem of interpretation.

             
  28. I would like to thank all for your kind comments. I am someone who has been traumatised by the services involved, so it is unlikely I would ever go to them myself; however, I have to believe that the services that are meant to care and bring relief from suffering, will become this for others one day, but my main hope is that society will become the true healer. I hope all are starting to see a how important this is.

    The word ‘Burden’ has been used within this thread. This word has become a political term to describe anyone with needs and that has vulnerabilities that need any support.

    ‘Burden’ is a negative term and a judgement that shows no compassion and also no morality. ‘Burden’ has been used by political advisers; one stating that anyone that is elderly or chronically sick should kill themselves. She was stating this in a ‘Church’ magazine.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1059166/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-Now-intellectuals-think-old-frail-duty-die-path-barbarism.html

    I will NOT be killing myself. I have attempted suicide in the past, but I do believe I have survived for a reason.

    If there is anyone reading this that is considering it. HANG ON! Something special is happening. The 21st century hierachy IS changing, as we speak. There are people starting to speak out and I hope this continues.

    If the Church is reading this, please stop the legal action threat, permanently. This movement is meant to be, I think you know it is. Not everyone will like it, but this is a time for us all to learn a new compassionate way. It has to start somewhere and this is the place and time to do this.

    Thank you

     
  29. It is easy to complain and attack what or who we do not understand. This is especially the case when we do not know the people who present us with these new ways and thoughts about how to behave or what to do, especially when we know we wont meet them. Complaints and attacks like these, have been at the heart of misrepresentations of people and nations, religions… throughout history, causing wars and oppression.

    Personally, I think it is time we stopped behaving like this, on an individual level, first.

    When someone doesn’t use grammar or speak language as well as we can, I really don’t think it should be a sign that they know less about subjects that affect multitudes of people. We cannot assume that those who speak differently from us are immediately stupid- we could miss out on the opportunity to really learn something or meet someone amazing, because we would not accept that people who express themselves differently could be our equal.

    I think it is a sign of insecurity to dismiss the idea of even listening to people who behave differently. It may also be a sign of pride; placing oneself above another, in prejudice.

    From my personal engagement with the people I have met at the occupy sites, at the heart of this movement of people, there is a common belief that “noone is beneath me and noone is above me- I speak for myself, one of the people.” Usually, I am surrounded by organisations and even families that are structured like a pyramid, where there are few or even one person speaking for and “leading” many. From what I have seen from the occupy movements around the world, of which London only has two sites [from my knowledge] they have challenged this pyramid structure, and have shown that it is possible to have communities that exist peacefully, with so many differences, where money and personal gain is not at the heart. They have done this in just weeks and are even taking care of vulnerable members of the wider society!

    I heard that insanity is to repeat the same behaviours, that do not work, or make sense, and not even try to change them. If your life is one long repeated record featuring payday and the weekend, is that because of logic, or insanity? Is debt robbing you, your children and your children’s children? Are you borrowing the earth from future generations?

    If you question nothing and don’t care about anything, why get in the way of those who do?

     
  30. Here you go people

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/ks1bitesize/

    This should help dramatically increase your employability

     
    • Seymour, I’m glad someone is actually trying to help! The problem here is definitely with education. We need to help the campers and I think that they should find your link useful. Perhaps they can even get some printouts for their “University”, provided that doesn’t infringe any copyrights.

      I would also like to point the tented ones to this link: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/AdultLearning/DG_96
      I work hard and pay a large amount of tax. My tax supports great schemes like this which can help adults with their literacy and basic maths. Hopefully if enough of the campers join these schemes they will be able to find some jobs and start paying back some tax.

       
      • Maybe you can find jobs for those Skills4Life tutors who’re suddenly finding themselves on the unemployment statistics.

        While you’re at it, you can explain to all the recent university graduates why their educations aren’t worth a piss in a pot right now.

        Bloody smartarse.

         
        • Yes, I can explain – thankfully we do not live in a communist state but a meritocracy. With more people going to university than ever there is more competition for jobs. If people can’t find the jobs that they believe they deserve they should settle for another job rather than sitting in tents doing absolutely nothing productive or useful. For example, let’s say someone studies fashion at university. If they can’t get a job in the fashion industry, they should get a job in something else, even working in a restaurant or bar, at least that way they will be contributing to the economy.

           
          • So how would you divide 5,000 current jobs between 2,000,000 + ?

            Ever heard of the lag effect ?

             
  31. I think it’s commendable that in the event (as seems highly likely) your Occupation becomes a magnet for dysfunctional alcoholics or the homeless, that some measures (no doubt in conjunction with specialist charities and providers in these services) to assist them are being taken. If that leads these people back into the slow path to integration with society at large, then I’d welcome it.

    I cannot, however, agree, with your slogan – ‘we are the 99%’ – you appear to be effectively advocating the complete nationalisation of society and forced income redistribution. Whilst I agree that the finance sector in particular stands in need of radical reform, you appear to have piggybacked on an almost 1970’s kitsch Marxism which, I would say discredits your cause with a number of the ‘99%’ you claim to represent. Despite the issues (and believe me I wish I earned as much as the financial sector’s denizens), I would say that the system of private property and capitalism, for all its flaws, has secured a standard of living, for at least 75% that our forebears would envy. You make no real indication of what would replace it beyond something that looks like Moscow in the 1930s or present day Pyongyang.

    I leave you with this quote, from 1776:

    ‘The statesman who should attempt to direct private people in what manner they ought to employ their capitals, would not only load himself with a most unnecessary attention, but assume an authority which could safely be entrusted to no council and senate whatever, and which would nowhere be so dangerous as in the hands of a man who had folly and presumption enough to fancy himself fit to exercise it.’

     
    • money does not bring happiness.its been said in the press that the now greek prime minister if he leaves his position that a former banker (lucas papajoe) will replace him…..

       
  32. great guys you are doing something positive. good for you.
    many people need support. you have kind hearts.
    some people say “cheer up it might never happen” and then walk on by and don,t
    engage any futher.
    1.it does happen
    2.it is happening
    3.it could happen to you

     
  33. some rasom said:
    “Get a lift share program going guys/gals if there isn’t one allready. That way people who might not ordinarily be able to make the journey from around the country, due to financial restraints, would be able to participate also!”

    This is a good suggestion, but it does assume that there are others that we know of who are interested ~ this is not yet the case for me. I haven’t come across any interest where I am at all as yet.
    So, either I wait, or I allow that love and hospitality of heart, that the sense of community that is emerging here, to arise from within me, right here where I am to those in need around me.

     
  34. I think its significant that people are given the space to air how they feel. Often the only way we know how to express the hurt in our heart is through verbally ranting and raving. It is honest and real in that it isn’t trying to hide anything ~ and that is a good thing. Regardless of how bad anyone’s behaviour may be, they are worthy of respect. It is only through this that improvement to behaviour can come. We cannot expect people’s behaviour to improve if all we do is to attack and otracize them. We are the 100% ~ no-one is beyond respect ~ each and every one has a beautiful, beautiful soul within ~ some more hidden that others because of what they believe.

     
    • Show acceptance, respect and love (as far as you can) and watch the beauty emerge.

       
  35. Bravo to you for doing something positive. Irrespective of how your campaign works out, if only one person is helped – for the reason that you’re trying to help – I have to applaud.

    However, I’d take issue with “tax revenues have been used to fund bonuses”, as that’s just silly. And though I understand what you’re trying to say – I think – this “99%” slogan isn’t helping; even in your post above you say “we are all part of the 99 percent” which written another way could be “100% are part of the 99%”.

     
    • Come on Phil.
      You are clever enough to know what is meant by the 99%

       
  36. I would enjoy these threads so much more and find them more useful for our Occupy effort if people would ignore the trolls.

    Also, if it is possible, I would respectfully ask the people who have responsibility for the site to try and moderate the discussions and delete the.personal attacks on other participants, the useless comments by persistent trolls, and the mindless abuse that takes up so much of the dialogue.

    Otherwise, keep up the great work!

    Peace and solidarity from Occupy Newcastle.

     
    • Occupy Newcastle……please?!

       
    • @ Michael,
      I just ignored the comment above.
      Its hard because I do want to engage in debate, i.e. by listening & speaking, rather than off topic pedantics, but I am trying.
      Ignore the trolls,

      Engage with those willing to debate.

       
      • oh yes…occupy me please @ Michael

         
        • As an old man, please enlighten me as to why much of the conversation revolves around “trolls”. I always believed them to be mythical creatures from Norway who live under a bridge ???

          I live in China and we don’t have trolls here, neither did they have trolls in London the last time I was there. Has the situation changed ? Mass immigration from Trondheim perhaps ?

           
      • SORRY
        post above by me seems to to in wrong place somehow.
        It does not apply to the post above.

         
    • By moderate discussions do you mean censor? Funny how that becomes appealing when you hear something you don’t like…

      I’ve taken quite a bit of time trawling though the large amount of drivel, ill conceived ideas, general ranting and pure fantasy on this forum. I disagree with most of it and am pretty much still at a loss as to what exactly your all trying to say. However I do believe everyone should have a fair right to air their opinion and I think this is an ideal place for it. Anyone can read and participate as they want without having the ‘tented ones’, as it’s so eloquently been put, cluttering up the streets. Anyone (as far as I’ve seen so far, mainly from the afore mentioned group) resorting to name calling and profanities just makes themselves look an idiot and invalidates what they have to say. As far as I’m concerned let them get on with it.

       
      • @Andy

        “By moderate discussions do you mean censor?”

        No, I did not say censor, You said that. I said moderate. There is an enormous difference. Look it up. Moderators have been a common feature on chat sites and online forums since the 90s.

        “I’ve taken quite a bit of time trawling though the large amount of drivel”

        I don’t have quite a bit of time to trawl though the large amount of drivel. I’m glad that you do and that you don’t mind, but my time is better served reading useful and constructive comments.

        Some may delight in online verbal free-for-alls, but the Occupy movement is intended for spirited, mature and considerate discussion, some times regarding extremely complicated or contentious subjects, and so I expect those discussing or arguing here to act intelligently and responsibly.

        I’m holding my brothers and sisters in the Occupy movement to a higher standard than Fox News and the Internet, andI have faith in people, and it’s up to you and everyone else to prove me right.

        Peace and solidarity.

        As a matter of fact, it’s a waste of my time.

         
        • I stand corrected.

          And, to be fair, this is a waste of all of our time !!

           
  37. Peace and solidarity from Occupy Your Mom!!

     
  38. Quick search on jobsite.com shows 5000+ open jobs in London…

     
    • Ah yes, but its much easier to complain about how bad things are than to actually get round to making things better. The reason (in this country at least) that there is a rich percentage is, for the most part, because some are willing to get off their backside and work hard for what they have got. Others would rather pitch a tent and complain about how unfair it is that some lucky bugger working a 70 hour week has a nice house and food on the table.

      But then maybe I’m just old, tired and cynical.Thats what 70 hour weeks will do for you 🙂

       
      • Andy, perhaps the tented ones have a point… we (the 99%) work 70 (or more!) hour weeks and pay a huge percentage of our hard-earned cash to the tax man. Why is that? Maybe we should try sitting around doing nothing useful for the economy and pitch some tents somewhere, maybe that’s a better way to “fix” the global economy… Hey, we could even start growing our own plants as a way of keeping us entertained.

         
        • You have a point Dill. It would be lovely to go on a nice camping trip (though I’d probably pick a warmer time of year to do it) and complain about how hard a time I, and a random percentage of people that I could nominate myself to speak for, was having of it. Plant growing (for food and ‘recreational’ purposes as well as some nice workshops and a sing song or two would be lovely too. Unfortunately I’ve been brought up as a realist and realize that there is not equality in this world and there never will be. Humans are not made that way. I’ve been brought up to believe that if I want something go work for it don’t moan about how unfair things are – it gets you nowhere and makes you small and miserable. I also understand that in any realistic economy there have to be at least a few people contributing to, rather that taking from it. I suspect both you and I are destined to do way more than our fair share of the contributions over our careers. In fact I think next summer I may spend my holiday camped out side a job center protesting at people that are not at least attempting to obtain one of the 5k jobs advertised 🙂

           
          • andy.why is it unfortunate that you have been brought up
            a realist? there are lots of inequalities yes but never say never.i think humans have been conditioned to think how they think.people at the camp are working believe it or not but not for money.money doesnt make the world do around and thats a fact.

             
          • Where do I start? Firstly, can someone sort this nesting out? It’s very irritating.
            Secondly yes human, I do believe that man has been to the moon. Very interesting choice of example to back your argument though. I think dreaming of going to the moon and actually achieving it is a remarkable and a mile stone in the history of man; something I think was worth doing. I’m surprised at your seeming support of something that cost billions of dollars for effectively little gain to humanity though. All done whilst countless millions died of treatable diseases or went to bed hungry. This was all (correct me if I wrong as my memory isn’t what it was and I can’t be bothered to look it up) down to the space race during the cold war – something I’m sure not a lot of people here would agree was a good thing. However, if it wasn’t for these things even with dreams and imagination, do you think we would ever have got there (or even come up with the technology to fake it – if you’re a disbeliever)? If we had the society I guess most people here would like, we would still be staring at the moon from the mouth of our Yurt wondering if it was really made of cheese. Which brings me nicely onto S. Wright’s comments; Firstly, the tide of history is always changing. That called history. Is it changing toward a society that has no electricity and a barter system for goods and food? I really don’t think so and sincerely hope not as my guess is, the vast majority of the population, at least of the developed world, realize that, though life may be tough, we have never as a race been better off. As for ‘my’ energy running out, it may have escaped your notice that computers, the internet and therefore this forum all would be fairly useless without electricity. Therefore it is ‘our’ electricity that I used for my example in a previous post. Also, a point worth noting, in itself electricity does not contribute to global warming (if you believe its happening at all, but that is not a debate for here – unless it’s yet another cause your taking up). It is the burning of fossil fuels to produce it that causes release of carbons and so on…. This is not necessary to make electricity any longer as there are clean(er) and more sustainable ways of doing so now. I for one think that this is a good thing and progress for the human race. You man or may not agree but I believe, Environmental issues are a concern for us all. As for when the oil runs out, as it will, and even if there is no viable alternative in place, I will be fine if not a little inconvenienced, thank you for your concern though.
            Fundimentally, if you really want any kind of mainstream support, you all need to do is work out what exactly your protesting about. You will, and are, going to get nowhere hopping on the back of any issue someone has a grievance about without putting forward a viable / sensible solution. Part of my job is running a projects and there is an acronym of SMART (Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, Time constrained) which is always applied at the outset for any project to be a success. The same needs to be applied to any project, campaign. protest etc. for it to have any chance of success. i.e. on a basic level the nestings on this site:
            S – sort the nestings out so that you can respond to all posts
            M – when done you will be able to reply to all posts
            A – it can be done with some development work (specifics can be supplied, but this is a brief example)
            R – yes, it will make the site much easier to read
            T- very soon or it will be irrelevant.

            Can anyone fill in the same for the current protest(s)?

             
          • @ Andy,
            My point about man going to the moon is that it didnt need money, it needed brains and resources. Take money away and people will still want to ‘progress’ as we have evolved. We have never stood still, so YES we would have got to the moon because we are capable of going there, again not because of money. Money is merely used to CONTROL the resources, (people and technology and raw/precious materials), we needed to get there. It in itself played no part.

            It could be argued we would have got there sooner were it not for the impact of money controlling resources ( i wish I had the resource of a typist as I am so slow at this ! 🙂 ) . How does that sound ?

            Again you rely on money in respect of electricity in your reply to s.wright, ‘man’ create discovered fire-then created uses for it- then…………….. did lots of other things and eventually man created a way of controlling the resources (us humans and earths goodies) using money as a tool. A tool in the wrong hands can be and is a dangerous thing.
            MONEY IS JUST A TOOL
            I have been thinking for myself for a long time now about these things, I think having children has this effect, and so was amazed to only very recently as in last couple of weeks come across a ‘think tank’ movement/group thingy (hate these labels, so open to interpretation) which has gone way beyond my ability in making these ‘ideals’ seem achievable. You may already be aware but if not look up the zeitgeist movement or below

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mkRFCtl2MI

            Their name is somewhat off putting but good viewing and reading.

            AGREE on the nestings frustrations, and as a project manager GET YOURSELF TO THE CAMP AND JOIN IN, PLEASE, IT NEEDS YOU.

             
          • human, I’ve taken a brief look at the you tube clip. It’s about 20 mins long and appears to be narrated by the world’s most boring, monotone man. I’ll listen to it in full when I have the time as I am interested in what solutions they put forward.
            I’m afraid I have to disagree with your theory on money and getting to the moon in the mean time though. Even if you piled up all the raw materials / components they would be nothing without the specialist scientists, designers and engineers to turn them into a space ship. How would this be facilitated without money? Would they be expected to grow their own food then spend their spare time working quantum physics overnight? Or would grateful farmers feed them, builders home them etc, in order for them to continue their work? Not to mention actually getting the raw materials in the first place. What incentive would a miner have for risking his life if not for reward? Whatever that reward, would that not just replace money as a tool? If so, how would that be any different? Anyhow, as I said before perhaps this clip has all the answers and I’ll be persuaded – I’ll reserve my opinion until I’ve endured Mr monotone and in the mean time agree on the mutual irritation of the nestings 

            I also agree with you that children change your view on the world. Mine changed differently (rightly or wrongly) to yours. I have become much more focused on building a secure future for mine and to have the best possible start. I work long hours and go to great lengths to do this and if it means other people miss out then tough, my priorities are my family (selfish I know). I don’t foresee any great change in world order so that means, to me, a nurtured childhood, good schooling, financial security and all that comes with it. So, thanks very much for the invite to the camp, but I think I’ll to decline. Aside from not having the time nor inclination to head over into the city, I hold very different opinions to those I’ve seen so far from the protestors on here. Besides from some of yours, I’ve seen very few even halfway sensible posts on here, which is a shame as I genuinely like to hear different arguments and points of view. However, anyone (whatever side of the fence they are on) that would prefer to whinge, blame everyone else, the system etc. than present a sensible / viable alternative and get off their backside to do something about it, irritates the hell out of me. That, coupled with the fact I’m part of the much hated financial community, I have a feeling I wouldn’t be well received!!

             
          • @ Andy,
            re ‘biiions needed to go to the moon, remember my argument says that money was not needed, just brains and resources.
            Money was created as a tool and was used to enable trade, which was fine until it became ABUSED by those wanting to control the trade of resources, i.e precious metals, fuels, etc, and not least HUMANS !
            As to the benefits of the achievement, well probably another debate in itself, however my limited knowledge would say the technological advances made during this time are equal to the industrial revolution in its impact, so yes it has contributed to humanity.
            So I say again we went there because we wanted to, not because we had money.
            re’ Electricity is ‘ours’ ‘………….so why do we ‘pay’ for it. Money did not create it, money just controls it and the fossil fuels to put it to use. The sooner we run out of these the better, a bit more difficult to control, solar, wind, wave etc., although my cynical mind tells me if we dont stop it from happening then money will control these as well.
            WHAT MAN CAN CONCEIVE, MAN CAN BELIEVE

            On the contrary re our children, I think we want the exact same thing for our children, a secure future, 2 of them have not long achieved uni. degrees with 1 more to go. And worked typical self-employed business owner hours too.
            We are not so different I feel ? I also managed 5 years in financial services.
            re going to the camp, I have not been there, I did not suggest it for a way of life just my understanding from lots of TV lately is that there are some very level headed people there,
            ; some numptys no doubt as well but thats democracy for you, but suggested it for a different perspective to these ‘chat’ rooms. And as long as you are not amongst the worlds most powerful 1% I h.o.p.e. and think you will be well received with your view from within the beast that is finance !

             
        • very usefull to the economy…..all i see when i pay my taxes is
          the !% profiteering from it for the mad games they play with the world and its inhabitants.i have to reluctantly go to work now.
          the “tented ones”are doing a marvelous job there and the people with hearts open on here supporting and raising awareness to others.keep it up people

           
          • Your right. Money does not in its self make the world go round. It is however a very handy thing to exchange for the things that do. Barter is all well and good but is the electricity company, for example, likely to want a nice fat rabbit or a string of beads in return for a months worth of electricity?
            Dreaming of a better reality is fine, but lets be honest, does anyone really believe that there is going to be any kind of deep rooted change? I for one don’t. And no matter how much the tiny proportion of people currently protesting would like it to happen its not. Human nature is human nature.

             
          • What man can conceive, Man can Believe.
            I suppose you believe no one has been to the moon .
            Small mind Andy, small mind.

            No big changes will not happen overnight, but I have children for whom I want to believe the future can be fairer for all.

             
          • andy.the tide of history is changing my friend.
            i think you are being unrealistic here.
            electricity does not make the world go around.infact it causes global warming thus and in effect killing off civilisation in parts of the globe at the moment.when the fuels that create your energy supply runs out which WILL happen what will you do?you see they can print more money but they cannot conjour up more oil ect….

             
  39. This is a fantastic idea, Love for your fellow man will see the success of this movement and it’s good to see it coming through in this statement.
    Thanks to you all.

     
  40. Hi – I am homeless and also know a great deal about mental health issues. I wrote you an email several hours ago on this subject but I see no reply – anyway I am dropping over for a visit soon. Reiterating some of what I said in my email (the main body was a recent article I wrote on homeless issues which would have given you a lot of background you need to know) – do not make the mistake (actually the same applies to mental health too) that there are these professional people out there who understand “them strange homeless people” – same could be said for “them strange nutters” and that as soon as these people hove into sight you should immediately defer to anything they say. By and large homeless people cannot stand most homeless workers and if you listen carefully to what they tell you (although it’s a vast area) you will start to understand why. In a way you are treating homeless (and mentally distressed people) as objects who have to be dealt with by some self-appointed adults – and believe me that’s how we are treated by homeless workers – we are subjects – yes, sometimes difficult, but we don’t fall into neat little categories. What my article would have told you (with numerous examples) is that the homeless industry is an £800 million pound scam, that everything to do with helping the homeless revolves around money, that you can take nothing you are told by homeless workers at face value – they are only interested in us in so far as they can exploit us. So forget this “professional help” nonsense. You will do far better by muddling along and learning as you go, than listening to the kind of bullshit that St Mungos or Thamesreach will try to sell you.

    Mental Health: similar considerations apply. There is a large movement of “psychiatric survivors”, radical professionals e.g Dave Harper at the University of East London, Lucy Johnstone at Bristol University, Joanna Moncrieff at the Institute of Psychiatry, and odds and sods like me who have been opposing the mental health system for 30 years or more, because it is a system largely run by heartless robots whose idea of treatment is drugging and electroshock. Lots of people, including self, have experience of and written about setting up alternative support to people in crisis – once again, please ditch the “professional support” nonsense. You can do better, all by yourselves.

     
    • I agree with the gist of this.
      I have been homeless my self too. I now have a roof over my head, enough food to eat and clothes to wear. I am content with this ~ it is all I need materialistically. Someone earlier metioned about being jealous of their fine home and car ~ I do not covet any of these things ~ but what I DO long for is someone’s time.
      Everyone is so busy working away, that no-one has any time to spend anymore ~ even the church is too busy doing something else.
      I can so relate to Hidden Member of Society’s comments about this. I don’t want to be an appointment slot in someone’s diary ~ that feels so offensive to me. The most I get from the people around me at the moment is a few snatched minutes in between their rushing around doing good works. We need a better way.

       
      • Although I’m no longer homeless in the natural sense of the word, I still feel like a wanderer looking for a home in people’s hearts.

         
    • Donnard, different things help different people. And some may indeed be freed by the idea of love and happiness that this group promote. However i would argue as someone who has been homeless that you cannot dismiss people who dedicate their lives to a cause they care about. It is far from objectifying and many people who work for those charities that you dismiss have been through the same problems as you. I’m not sure when you were last in contact with the mental health system, but times have changes and there is a reluctance to resort to measures such as drugs etc.

      Quite frankly there is something dangerous about putting faith in something so temporary as the encampment outside of St. Pauls. What will happen once these people have gon in a few months, or even a year. This is why you need infrastructures such as charities to continue support.

      You speak about getting over porblems on your own, and no doubt for some people the protest may provide an outlet, but it naive to suggest that these people can solve people’s problems, or that these problems are even symptomatic of the society in which we live.

      As for the group as a whole, and the ‘positive energy’. I cannot see this as being a message that will be accepted by many people in the UK. And the business about the 99% is verging on scary. 99% of people with one voice? That does not sound like a society I want to live in. What is funny is that I agree with a lot of being said, but get the feeling that there is no room to challenge ones own beliefs; that any form of criticism is taking as an attack by the ‘1%’, whereas it should be taken on board and learnt from. I’m inately suspicious of anyone who is unwilling to adapt their beliefs. It seems like this group is attempting to fit the entirity of the British public under a sort of ideology to which a lot probably would feel uncomfortable with.

      What needs to happen is that the group needs to be seen to enact some sort or Plurality and stop sticking to their dogma.

       
      • Hi Harry,

        I know that my own beliefs are being challenged at many levels through all that is unfolding here. As long as we all are open to our beliefs being challenged then I think we will make it. Its once our hearts become hardened to correction that we’ve lost the plot. I think that the opportunity for open and honest dialogue and airing of our views, in all their diversity, is what is making this work. I think we need to bear with the process and let it unfold. We may see a lot of our own beliefs falling away in the process.

         
        • I think that the value in this forum is that the voice of the unheard is being heard and listened to.

           
          • Please continue to listen!

             
      • Well said sir.

         
  41. The changes required to make society the place we want it to be require a change in ALL of our hearts. This is a humbling and painful process. Lets bear with each other and support each other as our beliefs are challenged and demolished. We all want a better world ~ lets stand with each other as it comes.

     
  42. Harry
    Nobody, not even those in St Pauls- or Jesus for that matter – can claim to represent 100% of the 99% (an unfortunate term but one that I am sure is just there to point out that 1% seem to hold a disproportionate amount of the wealth and power- it is pointing out that we have that wealthy & powerful 1%) and to represent every single view of every single person that forms part of the so called 99%. That would be ridiculous. Imagine trying to represent equally the BNP and Amnesty International. But by pointing out the inherent flaw of the term 99% am I not also pointing out how religiously infantile those who keep harping on and on about the fact that the camp does not represent their views or all of the 99%? Could these same people direct to me a government anywhere that represents 99% of the population and every view held by everyone single one of their citizens? Of course not.

     
    • Hi Pat,

      It may not be what you were getting at but Jesus DOES love 100% of the people. He may not agree with what we all believe, but he DOES love us all the same. Its our beliefs that are the problem.

      To all ~ if your beliefs are being challenged, be open to them being corrected. Resist the urge to defend. If what you believe is right, it will be proved so without your defending it. Let everything that is not right fall away. You are deeply loved and accepted even if you are proved to be wrong ~ and however deep, widespread and long the deception has been.

       
      • … and yes, Jesus does represent 100% of the people in this.

         
        • I’ve been one of the most deceived by religiosity, so I do know.

           
          • Mandy,
            You have probably got it spot on. Anger can only come from a belief that something is wrong. It certainly can’t just come from a few tents being outside St Pauls. Presumable some of these people get the tube, disagree with wars etc yet passively accept all those minor trifles

             
    • Ridiculously infantile 🙂
      Though I do like religiously infantile too

       
  43. I should point out that they are representing some of the views of the 99%, i.e. those that are not being heard or taken seriously. I have no idea why this seems to upset so many people.

     
  44. @ hidden member of society. I am profoundly moved by what you have written and welcome the thoughtful and considered postings on this thread. I agree that we as an Occupy movement need to be the society we want to see. This global conversation about peace, love, and compassion for eachother and an end to the cruelty and degredation of the current political and financial system for one of more equity and inclusion is a truly remarkable, never before possible chance to make a different kind of world together. @hms since you have so generously and articulately shared your thoughts on this thread, I hope you don’t mind if I share it with others as it provides a powerful insight as to what we can do together and why it matters so much.

    And yes, I think moderation is a necessary and acceptable convention to promote discourse. Blatant and offensive trolls waste time and effort when we have much more important things to talk about.

    Solidarity, we are the 99%, and this is what democratic discourse looks like!

     
    • Who is a troll?
      Someone who questions you?

       
      • I think that labelling anyone as a troll is disrespectful, regardless of their outward behaviour. Once you’ve labelled someone as a troll you’ve excluded them. Isn’t that the whole point of this movement ~ to be inclusive of ALL?

         
        • Mandy. I completely agree with you. Thankyou for pointing this out! 🙂

           
  45. As this chat predominantly is about mental health issues, I just want to add in that attention seekers are doing that because they are seeking attention. That is their desperate need. Who will give their time to give them the attention that they so desperately need? Or are we all too busy with more important matters?

     
    • Attention seeking is a symptom of needing to feel loved.

       
  46. I’m replying to Harry’s post of 3.48 but have very little time left on this computer. Harry, I’d love to know who you are who say you were homeless but defend the homeless charities – an unusual position. You don’t sound like a homeless person to me. Briefly, what most of the public don’t know, but you, Harry do know? – when people on the streets are offered accomodation by e.g. St Mungos, Thamesreach etc, the rents are astronomical but it’s all paid for by housing benefit – it’s a scam on housing benefit. E.G. I was in B&B through local authority and St Mungos and I was charged £300 per week. I have much more to say but out of time. And your mental health comments are bullshit

     
  47. A suggestion if i may.

    There are a lot of people currently who do not have the mobility (transport) to be able to make the journey to london. But i’m sure given the chance would be willing to make the journey.

    Logically speaking if this movement is to grow it needs numbers to be able to make the journey to london.

    Now if some like minded individuals happened to have mini buses, camper vans e.t.c perhaps we could organize a logistical section of the camp to schedule “pay as you go” impromptu people power transportation. If everyone paid their fair share of petrol and we assume that we could get 13 people in a mini-bus, well then the 150 pound petrol amount for a long haul there and back trip would suddenly become doable at about 12.50 per head.

    No money to corporations, just people power pure and simple. Would work out cheap as chips.

    Shorter journeys would cost even less (obviously ;).

    Granted your relying on some charity to begin with, i.e mini-buses, drivers willing to give up their time, but perhaps the cause is such a worthy one, that those that can, perhaps now should.

    Could make little stickers and stick them on the mini-buses….People powered! 😉

     
    • Logistically speaking car shares, nearer to the city of london would be economic also.

      Longer hauls would probably require mini-buses as the overheads for everyone would be decreased by number.

      I can drive, but i’m pretty short of money. I.e i have pretty much none, and i don’t have a car, but i would be willing to put my time and effort towards driving people to and from london.

      If there is a purse at the camp perhaps it might be worthwhile using some of the money to get more people down there.

      Just a thought anyways. 😉

       
      • Seriously consider your insurance position before offering transport in return for payment. In many instances the offer of transport “for hire or reward” without some form of public service licence will be considered an extremely serious traffic offence since it invalidates normal insurance policies.

        Please think and do research before you leap into this arena. If the camp has spare money i suggest they simply hire buses to bring people from major population centres. Life is complex,

         
        • I never said anything about payment or reward roger, thats why i suggested the offer of driving as a service for free, and everyone can split the cost of the fuel, that way no payment is taken.

          I am aware, that once you start charging, then you become liable as a taxi service of sorts. Cheers for the heads up tho ;).

          To do it the way described would be perfectly legit.

           
  48. Continuing on the issue of mental health issues ~ in labelling someone a time waster, you are sending them the message that they are not important enough to deserve your time ~ no wonder Jockstrap doesn’t feel included!

    Ah well, you may say, someone else has got the time and is better at dealing with these things than me. But that’s the attitude that is at the heart of this matter. That is the attitude that has led to making a profession of it with its so-called expertise. Believe me ~ it hurts!

    Believe this too ~ it is within you ~ let it come out.

     
    • Allowing all of this to be aired, without censorship is what is bringing about the exposure of the beliefs that have to fall away if we are going to have the society we all desire. It may seem an unwelcome distraction but it is at the core of what is unfolding through this movement. Let the process unfold without trying to control it.

       
  49. I’ve now got more time to reply to Harry’s comment and looking through I see that he is an advocate of professional services.

    Harry – let me quote you:

    Donnard, different things help different people. And some may indeed be freed by the idea of love and happiness that this group promote. However i would argue as someone who has been homeless that you cannot dismiss people who dedicate their lives to a cause they care about. It is far from objectifying and many people who work for those charities that you dismiss have been through the same problems as you. I’m not sure when you were last in contact with the mental health system, but times have changes and there is a reluctance to resort to measures such as drugs etc.

    Quite frankly there is something dangerous about putting faith in something so temporary as the encampment outside of St. Pauls. What will happen once these people have gon in a few months, or even a year. This is why you need infrastructures such as charities to continue support.

    You speak about getting over porblems on your own, and no doubt for some people the protest may provide an outlet, but it naive to suggest that these people can solve people’s problems, or that these problems are even symptomatic of the society in which we live. (end of Harry’s quote)

    OK – In my comment I said nothing about seeking help for my own situation – why on earth should I regard a tent on a pavement outside St Pauls as any kind of solution to my housing situation? In fact I have only visited on 4 occasions and stayed there a couple of nights – best of luck to the protesters but I am trying to sort out my own situation. But it is true that some homeless people are staying there and some of them are helping to run the site and so far as I can see doing a good job – I hope through informal contacts they might find accomodation. Harry, you mention all these wonderful dedicated people who work with the homeless – wish I’d met some (that is a bit tongue in cheek – of course there are exceptions – but precious few – most have their snouts firmly in the feeding trough.) Most homeless people will tell you similar things. The way you talk about these things it’s as if you are claiming knowledge – and I’m just very curious about what this knowledge is. Me, I have never been in the hands of the people in white coats, but I have been involved (and recently) with people who tell the most horrendous stories of what happens in psychiatric hospitals – I have been listening to such stories for about 30 years and they don’t seem to have changed. I’m not going to write in detail about it because I want to say a bit more about the homeless industry and this post is too long already. When people are offered accomodation by outreach workers, it is usually hostel accomodation and it starts about £185 per week and goes up from there. Yes, there are lower rents but they are exceptional. As I said above, I was in B&B following an operation – it was an operation on an industrial scale – a small building divided into 15 flats by a company and let out to people referred by local authority – they owned another 4 buildings in that part of London and possibly others elsewhere rent per person (some tennants were families) was £300 a week. Breakfast, by the way, was ‘covered’ by providing two deiced loaves, a litre of milk, sugar, marg and a packet of breakfast cereal, but no utensils or cutlery. I have had friends (I am thinking of a really quiet guy with no drug, alcohol or mental health issues) who were charged £360 a week in hostels – highest (same guy) was £60 a night in Bayswater. I was offered a flat by a Christian housing association who deal with the homeless for £270 a week – I have heard of similar rents from many other people. If you want to look for work (or if you are telling the dole you are looking for work) it puts you in a very difficult situation. It’s fundamentally about warehousing people and making money out of them, and on a national scale the amount of money involved must beggar belief. I have heard from several sources that many outreach workers actually take backhanders to refer people – you can just smell the money around. That’s very long, but I’ve only skimmed the surface – spend any time around homeless people and you hear endless stories of corruption. And all those workers are so sanctimonious, they’re all trendy lefties and they all read the bloody Guardian. End of.

     
    • But the reason we’ve got these problems in the first place is because individuals in society have passed the buck as “too hard to handle” and that’s why the industry has emerged ~ it has siezed the opportunity caused by society’s failure.

       
    • Donnard, I found your posts interesting and I agree with what you said. I’d like to read the article that you mentioned. Where can I find it?

      [excuse the double post]

       
  50. A request to the techies ~ is there a way to make it easier to read the latest posts on here without having to trawl through all the previous posts?

     
    • When they’re nested within an earlier post that is.

       
  51. Theres going to be an increase in the number of homeless people very shortly as well, what with the increasing of the age of single person 1 bedroom rate, coming up in january, from 25 to 35. More of a reason to get ourselves down to london man!

    Probably myself included. Although i might end up sharing a place with my sister, so i might be alright i guess.

    But i’m not bothered, never have been, i’ve been homeless, lived in shared accommodation. That sorta thing.

    Possessions only tie you down man. You don’t possess them, they possess you! 😉

     
    • Unfortunately, living alone is not always a choice. Many people with mental and/or physical health problems need to live alone or require specially adapted accomodation. There are some exceptions to the new housing benefit rules but they are based on disability benefit eligibility – another subject which is, quite frankly, a bloody nightmare in itself. There will be a sharp rise in homelessness, particularly amongst the under 35s.

       
  52. We need to all sing from the same hym sheet.
    Please please, please educate yourselves on the ROOT of all our problems.
    The root is explained eloquently here: http://www.moneyexplained.net/?page_id=236
    Please watch the documentaries and then visit the Monetary Reform page on that site for REAL SOLUTIONS THAT WILL DESTROY THE VERY ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.
    Everything else is just a symptom of the root problem.
    And the problem is this: Private Central Banks, – The Bank of England, the Federal Reserve have the power to create currency out of thin air, and charge interest on it.
    The Power to create a nations currency must return to the Government, and the people and its quantity must be carefully controlled.
    Please, please watch the videos on the page above so that we can all understand the crux of the issue, the very root of it to ROOT IT OUT!
    If you do not educate yourself on the subject by spending a few hours watching the documentaries on it, then what hope do we have to come to a common consensus and a solution to the problem.

     
  53. As Jesus said in not his exact words. Don’t worry. What can you change by worrying?

     
  54. You know what guys, I’ve realised this is a shit idea so let’s all pack up and go home.

     
  55. Hurrah for the investment bankers

     
  56. Wanted to say -well done everybody supporting and involved with the Occupy movement. It is hard to organise humans and introduce new radical ways of thinking.
    I’ve been homeless, on drugs, off drugs, marginalised and for me personally alot of it was about rebellion and unrest inside my soul. I found a path that stabalises me and grounds me -Herbs and Plant medicine. Now I often work with mental nutters in a professional capacity – I run a tea shop at festies -plenty of nutters there.

    But seriously looking at certain cultures mental health is a sign of being a true healer intouch with alternate realms. I know that there is something wrong with the picture I am being feed -I disagree with the creation of guns and bombs to begin with. I agree with music, dance, growing food, loving my community -my community are strong and supportive and I feel lucky to have fallen into their arms. Mud slinging and judgements of who is a more productive member of society because of their earning capacity is bullshit – I know many folks who have never paid tax with BIG HEARTS and indepth knowledge of basic survival. We are all one at the core of it.

    No idea of the shape of the future but loving the chaos.

     
    • Hey Karen – nice post. If you are around it sounds like you have exactly the right kind of experience with us nutters to give some time at the Welfare tent – I’m trying to get to Scotland and have very little time but I’m sure they could use you. After reading the above post, I thought I would go down and chat to whoever wrote it – still don’t know who it is – but as soon as I spoke to the guy who was going to set up the welfare tent I knew I couldn’t tell this guy anything – he’s been around the block, got a heart of gold and will instinctively do and say the right thing. (Same guy who set up the cafe – one of the most friendly spaces at St Pauls)

      from a fellow nutter (takes one to know one)

       
      • Hey Donnard,

        Hope you got yourself to Scotland -I haven’t got to the big church yet -its on da list. But I will go find the guy who set the cafe up x
        love to you

         
  57. It’s great to hear that all these bankers are so compassionate. Maybe they can make up the massive shortfall the mental health and rehab charities are facing due to the cuts in funding allocations for these very charities that all these people are supposed to be depending on.

    Maybe they can find the funding required to undo the cuts in mental health services in the NHS?

    Thanks to the 1%, untrained amateurs are all some people have to help them so instead of proselytising, given that you are so immensely worried, maybe you can do something to help.

     
    • Never mind this, some server/connection issue redirected what was a reply to someone above.

       
  58. Having been homeless myself, I must admit it was society itself that I felt let down by. People who knew of my situation had spare rooms but no-one offered to help. Strangers who had spare rooms were willing to let them but by charging the market rate.

    Wanting to make a profit off someone elses need is endemic in our society ~ that’s not the society I dream of.

    I dream of a society where we all share what we have freely. We give our time freely for the good of the whole. We have no consideration of our own needs because they’re being taken care of as we give to others.

    I dream of a society where everyone has time for each other. Where no-one is lonely or alienated because they are misunderstood.

    I dream of a society where there is no money. There is no need for money because everything is given freely. Each person has a home that they have been given freely. The land is not owned by anyone but able to be used freely by all and for the good of all. Food is grown and distributed freely according to need. Sources of fuel are free to be used.

    Each person has a role to play for the good of the whole. People’s roles are in growing and distributing food. Providing homes for and taking care of the vulnerable.

    No-one has to worry about earning money, because their livelihood is being taken care of by the whole.

    I have a dream!

     
    • Why do we need money?
      Why do we need a monetary sytem in the world?

       
      • We dont need it Mandy,
        its the 1% that NEED it, their life is worthless without it, and they use it against us to make us think we are ‘worth less’
        It is time, if money is to stay, we are all just worth-y , not worth-more, not worth-less.

         
        • Yes h.o.p.e. 🙂 ~ we are all worth-y! 100%

           
          • mandy im not too sure whether they would find it in their hearts to join us.they are destroying everthing here and are at this moment in time making plans to up ship and to make it possible to sustain life on another planet.what they truely love is power and they won`t give that up for love nor money

             
        • your absolutely right h.o.p.e .money is useless and in reality will become useless when it loses its value.some of the 99% realise this and the rest of the 99% will realise soon enough.and the 1% who had power over us because of it will have so no more.peace

           
          • @ hope ~ you say that their life is worthless without it ~ lets demonstrate what life looks like without it ~ where no-one is worthless, but ALL are highly valued and appreciated. Jealousy will make them come because they will see how empty their lives really are.

             
          • Sorry, I was meaning to convey that they may be wealthy by the world’s standards but It is love that their lives lack ~ let’s show them what it looks like. Jealousy will make them come and join us.

             
      • Ha ha, this is hilarious – seriously, I think you need to get an education. Perhaps go to university and study economics, finance or business. Oh, and a proper university at that, not a tent.

         
        • I got an education (upto M.B.A. level) but then realised that it is useless in reality.

           
          • My education has done nothing to solve my problems, which are problems of the heart.

             
        • @Dill Doe
          I study economics and finance and business everyday.
          I HAVE MY OWN BUSINESS and I live with our economic system as it is.
          Is there anything else more useful you can suggest that might help me better understand ?

           
          • and another thing Dill Doe,

            whilst your delving into your favourite dictionary website look up the word university, I think you will find ( eureka! ) it is an institution, of people, it does not refer to a building as you so stupidly imply. Get yourself an education that is worth having, a bit like the financial world really failing, your education has failed you. Actually thats harsh on the education system (my son is a teacher) YOU are failing the education system.

             
  59. Many of us would like to be part of the discussions but are simply unable to get there. I do hope that our voice is being heard and that our comments are being aired in the debates being held there.

     
  60. Imagine there’s no Heaven
    It’s easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today

    Imagine there’s no countries
    It isn’t hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace

    You may say that I’m a dreamer
    But I’m not the only one
    I hope someday you’ll join us
    And the world will be as one

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world

    You may say that I’m a dreamer
    But I’m not the only one
    I hope someday you’ll join us
    And the world will live as one

     
    • 🙂

       
  61. Freely share what you already have. Don’t worry if its not much ~ its enough to help someone in need. … and that’s how this revolution starts!

    That is how the dream of a better society will be fulfilled ~ from the bottom up ~ not from the top down. Just share what you have and watch it grow.

     
  62. “We are the 99%” is a powerful and valid message. Most of us would indeed like to see an end to the stranglehold of the 1% over politics and wealth distribution.

    I fully support the inspirational Occupy movement.

     
    • The 99% thing is cheesing people-off and is making the camp look arrogant even in the minds of late 20 somethings. I did an impromptu review of 20 plus persons at our firm but only 4 would align themselves with you. I did not include front desk, doormen or cleaners. I guess you really represent no more than 17% of whom many are students who will go on to find jobs with the very organisations they now (allegedly despise). This demo must move away from an extreme perspective to something that appeals to all. SWP speakers in particular are NOT THE WAY FORWARD! But there again they know that yet continue to usurp the people’s freedom to choose.

       
  63. jock Strap, your views stink as does you fake name

    Occupy lsx keep up the work, you make some of us old anarchists feel belittled

     
  64. Donnard, I found your posts interesting and I agree with what you said. I’d like to read the article that you mentioned. Where can I find it?

     
  65. Hey Peeps, I’m a free minded, individual person, who has views and beliefs, that are very much opposite to yours. You insult me, no problem to me, I’m not trying to sell anything to anybody! It’s down to you, to convince millions that your way is a better way. When you start doing that, try to look long and hard at the reality that affects many of us in our latter years. At the moment, it looks like you want to make an already bad situation, desperate for those of us that have spent a life time working towards a secure retirement. Oh yes, I’m talking about people in the private sector, not the the leftist public sector that you seem to adore!

     
    • @ Jock Strap ~ our views may differ, but your voice is heard and so are your concerns.

      The Occupy movement is in its fledgling stage and has a long way to go yet. I suspect that many are observing, waiting to see how this thing develops. I think this is probably a wise thing to do, even if you are unable to support it.

       
    • (engaging) @Jock strap,

      You seem concerned for yourself, I and others are concerned for our children.
      I would rather short term pain, get it over and done with rather than long term suffering like a disease we then pass on to our children.
      I also fear what major changes would do, but I fear even more not having major changes ! After all,
      IF THINGS DO NOT CHANGE THEY WILL STAY AS THEY ARE.
      (un-engaging)
      Shame you ended your concerns with a sweeping statement of derision. Shame.:(

       
  66. Its all very noble but actually creating ethical financial alternatives like expanding credit unions is the only way to undermine the current system. There are lots of people out there who see the current system as a joke and will gladly put their money into stuff that is wholesome and worthwhile. Some of the Uks trade Unions like the RMT already have a credit union, Yet this stuff gets ignored in favour of the sort of protests that makes the rightwing press squeal in delight. Im dissapointed by the lack of imagination of the left. I really am.

     
  67. Oh yeah, I meant to say ‘a bad situation worse’!

     
    • reiterated again here in case it gets missed above:

      @ Jock Strap ~ our views may differ, but your voice is heard and so are your concerns.

      The Occupy movement is in its fledgling stage and has a long way to go yet. I suspect that many are observing, waiting to see how this thing develops. I think this is probably a wise thing to do, even if you are unable to support it

       
    • There are likely to be sacrifices to our material lifestyle that many will be required to make in the times ahead, but that will be a small price to pay in order to have a society where each one of us is cared about and no-one is alienated and neglected.

      We were originally given this planet and all of its resources for free ~ ask yourself why you’re having to work so hard just to be able to have a comfortable retirement. It was never meant to be like this!

       
      • Hmm, I want to amend that to ~ I think that many will willingly make sacrifices to their lifestyles in order be part of a society in which everyone is cared about and no-one is neglected, in the times ahead.

        I don’t see that enforced sacrifice is where this is going.

         
        • The outcasts and despised of society are already being drawn to it.

          Saskia made a profound statement above. She said something about recognising that we have to become the society we want to see.

           
          • In saying that the outcasts and despised are already being drawn to it ~ I mean that they are sensing an acceptance that they have never felt from society before.

            There is something very deep starting to emerge from what’s unfolding. Its deeper than about the mere distribution of money. It is about the deepest longing in our hearts ~ to feel that we belong.

            People’s preoccupation with earning money has made this a hostile world. As I said earlier ~ it was never meant to be like this.

             
  68. h.o.p.e. touched on the fallacy earlier that wealth feeds the deception that one is worth-more than those who haven’t worked as hard to earn it.

    The fallacy is that we have to work hard in order to be worthwhile. This leads to prejudices against those who haven’t worked so hard ~ and this prejudice leads to labelling people as wasters, scum of the earth, low-lifes etc.

    Another fallacy is that we have to be nice in order to be worthwhile. Again, this leads to prejudices against those who aren’t so appealing to us ~ leading to labels such as trolls etc.

    In all of it there is the deception of being worth-more than another.

     
    • There is also the fallacy of one beng worth-more than another because of being a nicer person, or have worked harder, or have made a bigger contribution to society etc.

       
      • @ o.t.w.
        I think you understand where I am coming from,
        I see a system of credit as opposed to money, whereby everyone is credited at the same daily rate, so therefore none of this worth more worth less b.s. Everyone does the work they are capable of doing be it a brain surgeon, a footballer, a street cleaner. Create jobs so there is a job for everyone. Those who choose not to work receive enough credit, a basic credit that everyone receives, to live without stress. People will then be free to choose how and where they use their credit; be it a bigger house, a flash car, etc etc.

        This should eliminate a lot of the prejudices. I think.

        Same may call this in a derogatory way ‘idealistic’ but I imagine those very same people have used the expression ‘………in an ideal world…..’

         
        • Hello again Human! Sorry but I’ve still not had the time to listen to the clip. I will get around to it. Again it may well explain your credit system idea so forgive me if I’m asking questions about something already answered elsewhere. However flawed I think it is though, I think it is real progress for this group to actually be putting a proposal out. ‘Healing with love’ and ‘sending collective positive thoughts out’ are going to win you no favours with the non stoned masses. Do you really still buy that in 1/8ths by the way (loved the post by the way Seymour)? I’d thought it would have gone metric ages ago!
          Anyhow, I digress, back to my question on the credit system. So if everyone is to do the jobs they are capable of, who is to decide who does what? For instance, a vast quantity of people are going to be able to do less skilled work i.e. street sweeper, cleaner etc (its an example and not meant to be derogatory) where as brain surgeons would be very few and far between. If they get exactly the same reward, why would anyone want to spend years of hard training (I assume you’d get study ‘credited’)? That may not be the best example as I’m sure Surgeons love their jobs and have worked toward that role because they know what they want to do – how about say for example a policeman or fireman who at some point has the unenviable task of clearing up awful disasters such as that on the M5 at the weekend or high risk jobs such as mining, deep sea diving etc. people would flock to ‘fun’ jobs as there would be no incentive whatsoever to do anything that involved long hours, hard work or stress. I for one would be out of my current job like a shot and living a very easy life doing a job that I loved. As I see it there would either have to be incentive (i.e. more credits, in which case it would be money by a different name) or by decree – that sounds like a dictatorship or communism. Only one of those works and I don’t want to live under either system. I also see your self employed. How would that work in a credit based system? With your own company I’m guessing you put a lot of hours in and possibly employ other people. If you had a successful business under the credit system, I’m guessing you would only be allowed your allocated credits – what would you do with your ‘profits’? Where would be the incentive to grow the business, employ more people etc.?

           
          • all very good questions,
            and too many for me to answer with my slow typing here and now, HOWEVER
            It is a ‘work in progress’ …….brought about by ‘chasing the dream’………just thought I would chase a less stressful dream for a while 🙂

            Thats not to say I am giving up on it, just that I alone can not possibly have all the answers, so looking for feedback to progress the ‘work in progress’
            Any positive ideas will be gratefully received.

            (persevere with the ‘monotone man’ it is enlightening, as a starter to a different way of thinking) I am not a cult member btw 🙂

             
  69. Hi hope 🙂

    Over the past few years I’ve been taken on a journey and shown quite a bit about living beyond the need for money. I went bankrupt in 2004 and since then have not had a bank account or credit facility at all. I now live hand to mouth, so to speak ~ something which is working out very well.

    Much of my provision comes through my day-to-day interaction with others. I do some home-help type work for my friends for free (whatever is needed really), and in return they offer what they have, such as the use of their washing machine, or excess food that they have, or cash if its required for something.

    The following is an excerpt from the bible (in Acts 4) which speaks of the sort of society that I long to be part of:

    “All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.”

    This sharing of their possessions though, didn’t come from an enforced system of equality, but is what they were moved to do in their own hearts. As I said, this is the society I long to be part of.

     
    • Opps! That was meant to be nested under your last comment 🙂

       
      • Hello o.t.w.,
        No worries I have read it anyway.
        Cant claim to be as religious about things as you seem to be, except to say I believe we are all ‘god’ it is how we go about life that determines how godly we are.
        Judging by how you are living and for what my opinion is worth your a brave man/woman living as you are. All power to you! STAY CONTENTED and STAY out of the rat race !!

         
  70. To all supporters of Occupy London.

    The government has schemes in place to help you. They teach literacy and maths to those who may have missed it at school, I’d check out direct.gov.uk – you should be able to find some courses to help you. I doubt these classes take place in tents or tree-houses but you could, by all means, ask to have a lesson outside from time to time, perhaps you could even go on a field trip!

    There is a finite amount of money that the government has to spend but I am happy that my tax goes to help people like you. With some extra help you can even start planning to get your first job and eventually start contributing to the economy and the country by paying some tax like the rest of the 99%.

    Good luck to you all and I hope that you will find jobs soon!

     
    • I responded to you already above, but just to reiterate again here in case you’ve missed it ~ I got an education ~ upto M.B.A. level ~ but it has been useless in terms of solving my life’s problems ~ which are essentially problems of the heart.

       
      • Again, I’ve worked in high-powered, well-paid jobs ~ but again, it did nothing to solve my life’s essential problems. I had a good income but my life was empty!

         
        • OtW – Maybe I’m missing the point somewhere but how are your issues of the heart and empty life a reasons to be protesting? Is it the fault of the bankers or 1% that you have been unable to find an unfulfilling job or meaning in your life? Is the the current global financial crisis that is causing you the distress? If so, you are as much to blame as any. I see in a previous post you have been declared bankrupt therefore defaulting on debt. There may have been irresponsible lending but there are two sides of the coin and everyone that has taken out a loan that they can’t afford or have defaulted on (for whatever reason) is also to blame. Its the same as those that moan that McDonalds food has made them fat – you know its crap (though it may taste nice) and not good for you so don’t eat it in the first place. If you want your life to have some meaning I’d suggest find a job that interests you and have kids. Nothing more meaningful than working to provide a realistic and attainable future for the next generation rather than just dreaming of how nice things could (but never will) be.

           
          • @ Andy……….ouch @ o.t.w.

            There is an argument/debate that if credit had not been invented there would be no debt to default on. We cannot choose to go into debt without the choice being there in the first place.
            And the main reason for not being able to finance debt is a loss of income, not taking on the debt itself.
            Loss of income ………discuss 🙂

             
          • That was not meant as a personal attack on otw I was merely pointing out that its easy to blame the ‘system’ and nameless ‘them’ / ‘banker’ / ‘politician’ / ‘fill in the blank’, without taking a look at one’s self. The financial system needs to be reviewed and more strict regulation put in place so we can still trade / lend etc. within the rules but avoid situations like the one we are currently in. This is currently underway. However, I go back to my original point that, everyone should take personal responsibility for their own actions. If you’ve ever had a loan (no one forced you to take it) that you’ve defaulted on then you are directly responsible for the current situation. Going back to my rather flippant Burger analogy – they are there on sale all the time but no one is forcing you to eat them and get fat.
            Loss of income is sadly a fact of life – its always been a fact of life in the private sector and likely to happen to us all at least a few times in our careers. There is no shame in it, nor should it be debilitating. Nor, for that matter any excuse for defaulting on mortgages, loans CC’s etc. You can make provision against it, even if its in the form of insurance policies. Adequate planning and taking responsibility for yourself means its possible to mitigate impact if your earnings are cut. In essence – don’t borrow the money if there is the possibility of not paying it back. As for credit being invented, I’m sure it was around a long, long time before money was ever dreamed up. In a barter society the same rules apply – “your hungry now so I’ll give you half this cow, as I can’t eat it all anyway and you can give me some of your crop of apples when they are ripe”. If Apple man’s crop fails, cow man will starve. Is that fair? (Crap example I know, but its been a long day!). Credit is credit – doesn’t have to be money.

             
          • @Andy
            I’ve only just come back and noticed your comments here.
            Just to clarify, I’m not one of the protestors, just someone commenting here the same as you.
            You make many comments which suggest a severe lack of understanding. I hope you learn the wisdom of listening and accepting other’s viewpoints and experiences as being valid.

             
    • @ Dill Doe

      Why lie ?
      you do not wish ‘us’ good luck and you do not hope for those who do not have jobs.

      YOU ARE A LIAR.

       
      • I’ve written a response below

         
  71. I wholly support your sentiment Dill but I think you have to give credit to the “tented ones”. They are all well versed in dividing imperial weights into their fractions but need help to learn there is more to life that an 1/8 of an ounce. Do you know if the government run any conversion courses onto the metric system? That said, it should thoroughly discouraged to continue these activities in the metric system.

     
  72. Can I make a suggestion to posters here until the nesting problem is resolved? If we’re responding to an earlier post, why don’t we copy and paste the relevant comment which we’re responding to into a new box like this, with a reference to the poster’s handle, so that we can just come and look at what’s new on the bottom of the list?

     
    • So, for example:

      @ 1.08pm on 7th Dill Doe said: “Good luck to you all and I hope that you will find jobs soon!”

      Then I make my response here.

       
  73. Oops! That should have been in a new box like this 🙂

    So, for example:

    @ 1.08pm on 7th Dill Doe said: “Good luck to you all and I hope that you will find jobs soon!”

    Then I make my response here.

     
  74. @ 1:58pm on 7th Occupy the World said:
    “Oops! That should have been in a new box like this”

    In regards to my suggestion, instead of using the “Reply” button I should have started afresh using the box at the bottom, like this.

     
  75. @Occupy the World
    Good idea – will try that going forward. Thanks! 🙂

    @human of planet earth
    I’m sorry that you misunderstood me. I really do hope that the tented ones find jobs soon. I believe in fairness and to that means I do not think it fair that 99% of us work hard and pay our taxes while the 1% sit around in tents and do no not contribute anything. I hope the campers will understand that in order to get jobs they need to compete with the others who want jobs – simple things will help: dressing appropriately and smartly, washing their hair regularly etc. I do hope that you heed my advice – believe in yourself, you can do it, the jobs are waiting! Good luck!

     
    • YOU are still a LIAR.

       
      • Human of planet earth, a dictionary is a useful book which explains the meanings of words. They have free dictionaries online which you can use, here’s an example:
        http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liar

        You’ll see that this one shows the definition of “liar”. Hopefully this will help you to see that I am not a liar.

        Seriously, human of the planet earth – there is help out there, not just for you but for all of the people of the tents. You can learn and turn your lives around – no more siting around idly in dirty, smelly tents. How nice would it be to be able to shower every day and go to work and know that your taxes are contributing to the welfare of our country. Go for it, as you say, you’re human, so start acting like one – stop sitting around compaining and start working and paying taxes!

         
        • Dill Doe,
          Currently sitting around on my cosy leather sofa in front of my cosy open fire with a few logs on the burn, they are cosy too. Sorry to shatter your DELUDED impression of everyone who shows support for this ‘movement’.

          Need I say more ?

          Yes I think I will get it all off my chest.

          I shower everyday, sometimes twice, I work from home everyday and I pay my taxes via self-assessment as I have my own business. So, I am contributing to the welfare system, and if any of the protesters are drawing on that welfare, then I see it as payment as they are doing the ‘dirty work’ of creating awareness.

          As for ‘compaining’ http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liar !!

          btw
          I ‘heeded your advice and looked up the word ‘liar’ (not) and hey presto, I got confirmation in case you doubted me, YOU ARE A LIAR.

          You said I misunderstood you, you may well be MISUNDERSTOOD, but no quite the opposite I understand you very well, and certainly more than you understand me.

          But listen dont worry, there is help out there for you, either pop down to st. pauls they are very welcoming I hear, failing that option for lack of bravery and honesty not being your best policy, look up some help for LIARs on the internet, cant recommend one off the top of my head like you, as I dont need them like you need yours.

          Be lucky, of which there are a few forms.

          Reply ↓

           
  76. @ Dill Doe said: “Good idea – will try that going forward. Thanks!”

    It may not solve the problem completely though as some, I suspect, will still be posting using the Reply button while its there.

     
  77. In wanting to see a fairer distribution of the resources in the world, I don’t want to see it done forcefully. Personally, I don’t like receiving anything given begrudgingly ~ I would rather go without. I do, however, appreciate what is shared with me with gladness. I give freely of what is mine ~ my time and possessions ~ and I appreciate what I receive from others as they are moved in their hearts.

     
  78. @ Dill Doe

    How many people are happy paying tax though? How many begrudge it?

     
    • @Occupy the World
      I doubt that many people like paying taxes! I most certianly do not enjoy paying my taxes, however, it is a necessity. The UK tax structure is such that the rich pay more than the poor, hence why we have different bands. I believe this is correct and fair. A number of campers have said that that the large companies and the rich do not pay tax – this is just totally and absolutely ludicrous. People who claim this should download the annual reports of some public limited companies and see for themselves how much tax they pay. If the tented ones don’t understand these reports they should pack up their tents and get an education.

       
  79. @ Dill Doe ~ well paying taxes is a necessity the way the world is at the moement anyway.

    I’m a dreamer, so indulge me a moment 🙂 How about letting your imagination run wild a bit ~ what would you want the world look like if you could choose?

     
  80. @Occupy the World
    Sorry, but I’m not a dreamer, I’m a realist.

     
  81. @ Dill Doe ~ and a begrudging one by the sounds of it!

     
  82. @ Dill Doe ~ life is meant to be a joy! That is what humanity was created for.

     
    • Yep – and it is indeed joy! Perhaps if the campers get out of their tents and start living and working they would realise that life is in fact joy!

       
  83. @Occupy the World

    No not really. We need some sort of reform and financial regulations should be, and are being, reviewed. What I don’t like is the way that Occupy London seems to be a group of extremists – the book A Clockwork Orange comes to mind when I think of the anarchist campers.

     
  84. @ Dill Doe ~ don’t you see that they are working? I don’t get the impression that they’re sat around doing nothing.

    I think that they are working at looking for solutions to make this world a place of joy for everyone ~ so that no-one feels thet they are serving a system begrudgingly. In my own experience, you can’t be begrudging and feel joy at the same time.

     
  85. @ Dill Doe ~ why don’t you be really honest with yourself about how you feel about your lot in life. I’m not talking about here, but when you’re alone and have time to reflect.

     
  86. Dill Doe,
    Currently sitting around on my cosy leather sofa in front of my cosy open fire with a few logs on the burn, they are cosy too. Sorry to shatter your DELUDED impression of everyone who shows support for this ‘movement’.

    Need I say more ?

    Yes I think I will get it all off my chest.

    I shower everyday, sometimes twice, I work from home everyday and I pay my taxes via self-assessment as I have my own business. So, I am contributing to the welfare system, and if any of the protesters are drawing on that welfare, then I see it as payment as they are doing the ‘dirty work’ of creating awareness.

    As for ‘compaining’ 🙂 🙂 🙂 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liar !!

    btw
    I ‘heeded your advice and looked up the word ‘liar’ (not) and hey presto, I got confirmation in case you doubted me, YOU ARE A LIAR.

    You said I misunderstood you, you may well be MISUNDERSTOOD, but no quite the opposite I understand you very well, and certainly more than you understand me.

    But listen dont worry, there is help out there for you, either pop down to st. pauls they are very welcoming I hear, failing that option for lack of bravery and honesty not being your best policy, look up some help for LIARs on the internet, cant recommend one off the top of my head like you, as I dont need them like you need yours.

    Be lucky, of which there are a few forms.

     
    • Well, good for you there Captain Canvas! Glad that you are one of the people who is getting on with you life like the rest of us in the 99%.

      My problem with the Canvas Corp is that they are no longer simply protesting about financial reform but instead have shown themselves to be a bunch of anarchist hippies who want to change the whole world. I even read posts in support of the gipo squatters at Dale Farm. Disgraceful.

       
      • Dill Doe,
        Glad to hear you have learnt something about me, a supporter of change. Keep learning. Do not be so selective of the posts you read, there are just as many sensible people posting as non-sensible, and some of each make themselves easy targets for attackers. Lose your assumptions about people, or else I might start assuming you have your ‘name’ for good reason 🙂
        Now can you please reply to some other replies I have made to you elsewhere so we can get this out of our system. Seeya around.

         
  87. Well done Young Indigo’s. Do not reject or judge anyone you meet, even the ignorant and purile so well represented on the faceless Internet, they will be judged in time not for their anger and confusion but for their deliberate malice. You number 2 Billion globally and represent and will carry 99% even the weak minded and stupid. Seeking Equity and Justice is just the start, the goal must be for all to VALUE CHANGE FOR SURVIVAL, FAIL TO CHANGE AND HUMANITY WILL NOT SURVIVE. It is suicidal to abuse the protective roof over your head, Mother Earth is that protection. At 10.30am on the 11.11.11 please collectively send out healing thoughts to the whole of humanity, especailly the leaders of the world and ask for them to be freed from their handlers.

     
  88. 99% Question …. How many RAF and Allied pilots flew or were lost in the Battle of Britain, it certainly wasn’t 99% but by god they represented them. Of course few of them knew than that in 2010 while fighting other terrors, our borders would be protected by Brodie Clark.

     
  89. I am so proud of this movement. Situated on the steps of St Pauls, the occupation is highlighting the need for more provision of these kinds of services, highlighting it against the Con-Dem government who is routinely slashing funding to them, and against the cathedral who as Christians and as Christians with an abundance of wealth, the capacity and supposedly the morals to provide such a service.
    I suffer from mental health issues myself (you cant be well adjusted to such a maladjusted world) and have always found myself offered anti-depressants before counselling, and when offered counselling I am having to wait up to 6 months on the NHS, for just 6 hour long sessions.
    I truly believe everyone would benefit from an someone impartial to talk to, someone not involved in your life to be able to provide another perspective on things. Especially in the case of activists, who often put their social movements and the caring for others above themselves almost every day.
    If the movement could set up a counselling training service (I’m not sure about the logistics of this, perhaps if the people needing counselling would know that the volunteers are just that, and are not fully qualified but willing to lend an ear and give a hug) it could be a much more inclusive and loving place.
    Lastly, I smile to myself every time I think of David Cameron and his response to this:
    this is Big Society. You asked for it.

     
    • Monster blog Meg 🙂

       
      • As a sort of therapy, why not send it to his office, just dont EXPECT a response, just hope for one, as h.o.p.e. is here.

         
  90. fantastic put up, very informative. I ponder why the other experts of this sector do not notice this. You must proceed your writing. I’m confident, you’ve a huge readers’ base already!

     
  91. Pretty great post. I just stumbled upon your weblog and wished to say that I have truly loved surfing around your weblog posts. After all I’ll be subscribing to your feed and I am hoping you write again soon!

     

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