GA Minutes – 1pm Wednesday 7th December 2011


Minutes for the General Assembly, 1pm, 07/12/2010

Legal Eviction WG: still needs witness statements for eviction case

Legal Reform WG: meeting Saturday 14:00

Outreach WG: meeting at 14:00 at Salvation Army

Economics WG: meeting at Costa on cheapside today @ 17:00

Coordination WG: Has been uploading WG email contacts online but needs more WG details to upload.

Agenda themes

FSA meeting 20min

Common Law 20min

FSA meeting: There are 10 people attending

Em is going to the meeting. She will attend as an ‘ordinary person.’ She wants to make sure the meeting will not be about economics per se – and to make a report back to the GA.

Dave is going to the meeting. He is in the Economics WG. Credentials include a lot of work on management, economic models and exposure to economics at an academic level, and negotiating.

Rich is going to the meeting. City of London WG and Corporations WG.

Rich explains:

Agenda for the meeting is:


45 minutes on discussion split in three parts

  1. What is the regulatory agenda of the FSA (Sants explains)
  2. How far do these reforms go towards meeting the concerns of the public?
  3. How might public influence be brought to the FSA.

Peter is also going to the meeting. He is part of the Economics WG. He makes money on the stock market as a small investor. The talks will not represent the movement. The group will not offer anything, as there is no remit. But the group will ask questions.

Mark is also going to the meeting. He was asked to facilitate by the multi-faith group. The Organizers were unhappy that occupy will be facilitating so there will be a co-facilitator from the organizers. Therefore there may be a risk of compromise on consensus.

Tanya is also going to the meeting. She helped to set up the meeting. It had very short notice. Therefore it was hard to get camp discussion on it. The discussion is not representing Occupy but individuals. It is important not to miss the opportunity to have discussion. The space offered is neutral. Therefore numbers that can go are limited. It has very hard to get an occupier as facilitator. She is attending as an ordinary person.

? Don’t you think that by attending the meeting on their terms you are undermining the legitimacy of the GA. I am suspicious of economists who do not represent my views. My opinions are not reflected by those attending this meeting.

? I have been here for 4 and a half weeks. Our legal tent was sabotaged. Then I started a Law reform WG. For weeks I have tried to get people to make representation. I do not feel economists can represent me, who has been a victim of the banking fraud.

Tanya: We are not going to this meeting representing anything other than as people from occupy. We will not be presenting an Occupy position. We do not have the right to present an Occupy position.

Facilitator: Meeting is at Bedouin tent (neutral space).

? How much media will be there. What if it gets spinned in FSA favour.

? What are their roles within the community

? I started the alternative economy workshops but there was an elite in the camp. The people attending should have specific questions e.g. Dogamy in recruiting. The FSA is trying to protect the financial system but not the UK economy. FSA should be accountable to the rest of Europe.

Dave: We have professional economists feeding into this discussion. But I was only aware of this FSA talk 2 days ago. I did not expect an invite. We have all felt the elite. This has all happened very fast. Yes the problem is the economy not the financial system. I have worked in the kitchens before I started the Economy WG.

? If this is the first meeting then I would like some structure to future talks that can incorporate specific individual greviances. I worked in finance in the 1980’s (big bang) where those with money were freed up but those without were restricted. This needs to be addressed. The FSA does not represent us.

? Recognise FSA has a plan but get Sants to act above and beyond this.

? Its not individuals going – the fsa would not be interested in meeting individuals – it would only meet the Occupy. Next meeting it should be completely new faces – new individuals. Agreed???

Dave: economics – I have been involved in RTS etc. Then a year ago I did an economics course. I have a better understanding now. This talk was not organized well. There was no central organizing point for this. But I did get my Birkbeck lecturer to come to a planning talk yesterday.

? I can understand why people would not want to talk to the FSA but I have had good talks with the FSA. The media – Inca, myself and livestream need to be there to stop the spin.

? If you do not represent occupy what is the aim of the meeting.

? Consensus should be that we go there as occupy and the next time people go should be new people.

Peter: This is the first of several meetings. Future meetings will come out of this meeting. GA setting question to the FSA – there is no space on this agenda but hopefully there will be opportunity to make questions.

? Can we be kept informed through email

Facilitator: There are several ways to communicate

Em: We can not record or have livestream but Johnny will be taking minutes. There will be no media present during the talks.

Dave: I see myself as totally subservient to the GA but it is important to have people there who know what they are talking about. We have the opportunity to get something out of this.


Second discussion on Common Law

My name is Nellie. I was here on the first day, then followed Occupy on-line during the last few weeks. This is about Common Law. It could have a solution to the eviction process.

I asked John Cooper QC about common law and a conflict of interest regarding his affiliations. He will not reply to me. I do not think he should represent us. But is for the GA to decide. On this I would like to introduce Veronica who wrote ‘Freedom is not just a seven letter word’. She has knowledge and experience on common law.

? What is the conflict of interest

Nellie: Cooper has taken an oath of obedience to the City Mayor

Interruption > This guy is causing problems – this is not a rational debate

Facilitator: Please process

Interruption > this is an abuse of the general assembly

Facilitator: please process

Nellie: I would like to hand over to Veronica. This is about a lawful rebellion.

Facilitator: Paul before you leave can you explain why you interrupted.

Paul: The question put to Cooper was answered at the GA

Nellie: by Cooper?

Paul: No, by me. Coopers first duty is to the Law. Second duty is to his client. There is no conflict of interest.

Facilitator: Ok, now Veronica will lead

Veronica: Paul you do not know the law. A QC’s first duty is to the court. Second duty is to the public. Third duty is to the client. Paul you do not know what law is.

Facilitator: No personal attacks please.

Veronica: I am leaving!!!

Facilitator: please process.

? I would like to study law and would like common law explained.

Nelie: I can try. Here is a Law dictionary. It is different to an English dictionary. There is Common law – such as breach of the peace. There is a difference between legal and law. Refer to the tent protests in Melbourne. Having a tent was illegal but not unlawful. There are two jurisdictions. Legal and Lawful. Right now the camp is engaging in Legal instead of common law/lawful court (court d’jour).

I do not believe the statutes are always right. Being gay in the 1970’s was illegal but not unlawful.

In our case – the judge said he can not proceed unless he had a named individual. We should not have given a name – case closed. Names have a legal personality.

Please listen to Veronica.

? Is this freeman on the land – it is very hard to understand. Just like our current legal process. This is a problem – we are disenfranchised from legal processes, just like economic processes. We should have some popular classes on this topic. I propose we have a class on this, from both sides, lawful and legal.

Facilitator: GA’s are not the place for this type of discussion

Veronica: My information is needed by the GA. I did a workshop three weeks ago but nobody from the GA turned up. I do not care if you do not listen. I am happy to talk to the GA

Facilitator: 1pm GA’s are not about this type of discussion this is for the 7pm GA.

Veronica: Albert Einstein said ‘you can not solve a problem with the same mentality that created it.’ For example trying to solve the FSA problem with the same mentality as the FSA. You have to know who your enemy is. There is a bigger picture and it is simple. It is common sense. Every human being has common sense. I have never told anyone anything they did not already know.

? What can we do moving forward

Veronica: Re-discover your humanity, common sense, understand you are not agents of the government but human beings with a birth right. Your rights are the right to travel, to move etc. These are constitutional rights. I refer the Magna Carta treaty of 1215. We have the right to lawful rebellion. Why is the MC not taught at school? Government governs your mind! Authority – means Author of the writ. If someone says I am an authority ask them where is the writ.

? We have solicitors and barristers. But there has not been a duty of care letter to us, Why??

Facilitator: It is difficult to facilitate – please understand when we exercise authority it is to guarantee people are heard – we wish to deconstruct power structures through consensus.

Nellie: The way forward – look up ‘common law lean’. We have possession. They want possession back. Veronica will offer advise if we want (have a lawful team as well as a legal team to offer the GA choice). I propose to fire the legal team and adopt a common law defence.

Paul: If I was not here I would be writing my statement for the court case and I would be referring to the Magna Carta – I am a free man. Do you know the history of this site – what happened in 1213?

? What is happening here is a carbon copy of the Democracy village. The Judge said article 10 and article 11 of human rights should be our defence but by our preventing others from having their say DV was evicted.

? The documents served on us are not effective as they are served to persons unknown (the world). Let the Pro-bono solicitors go to court. But we should not submit names.

Veronica: 1213 King John signed over all lands to the Church.

Paul: No, on this site the Barons signed a lawful rebellion against King John.

Facilitator: Please – people can discuss this topic after the GA but this space is now needed by the tent city Uni.

? We need a debate on this as this seems very important – between the Legal eviction team and the lawful rebellion team.

Paul: I tried to get the lawful rebellion group to come to a talk but they refused.

Nellie: I have tried to get a talk with the legal team but they won’t talk to us.


There is a conference tomorrow 7pm, on Democracy.



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