2013/04/19 Minutes Economics Working Group

2013/04/19 Minutes Economics Working Group

1. Sustainability Closing the Gap between Rich and Poor See John’s email Drat ! What a blunder! – Re: Revised discussion – ‘Pre-disrtibution plan’ – Friday 19th April 2013 – sent 17th April. Not ranked according to priority in terms of systemic importance. Why we came to the view we did? Methodology? Work and sustainable wealth creation: Agree on land in common but reservations about models imposed. Commons approach to decouple dividends – reciprocity rather than exchange – 7 principles of the commons – land trust permits for profit activity within constraints – inclusive rather than exclusive – needs to be sustainable in environmental terms. Absence of markets? Centralised distribution is inefficient – potential pitfalls of the Soviet model. Individual autonomy; free markets require regulation; ambiguity of language eg. “appropriate”. Ways of organising social interactions – market has a valid role in some circumstances. Exploitation in the absence of competition. In some circumstances, market based system is essential. Remodelling monopoly into cooperative. Reminiscent of 17th century exploration of such issues; needs decoding. Rent on land is problematic but the will of the majority is to share the bounty from the land; for profit owned business – license to exploit? Monopoly already exists – natural monopolies. Abolish of for-profit money end to usury/riba: Interest free money would mean banking becomes a utility. Inflation means no interest is at a cost measured against inflation; banking global warfare? Informal credit could imply fractional lending; cooperative model relies on altruism rather than selfishness and self interest. Inflation is a product of interest. Relying on individual responsibility is problematic – some don’t want to take the responsibility. How might investment and pensions would work? risk and reward Sharia’a banking; protection for at the end of their days. Citizens income would substitute for pension and unemployment benefits. Essential part of the solution. Money lending – time; natural progression of banking to public utility; need to look at things afresh without the preconceptions of history; frustration with the discussion – if we understand the problem the solution would fall into place naturally; money is a ticket system – 500 tickets for a 500 seat theatre. Decoupling the logic of money. Money is secondary – logic of contribution rather than exchange. Food cooperative – yield share whatever it is – share the risk (Kartoffel Kombinat). Fair, Guaranteed Incomes: Minimum is more important than the maximum – separate principle for means to fund it. Spirit level is at the heart; separates life from work; means to life without employment is essential; art creation rather than how to sell; care work; “how” is important; limiting ratio. Less hung up on income differential. Why should there be any differential – balance job complexes. Big Society – not equally in control of their lives; not so much how much you earn but how you earn it. Artists, scientists? Social usefulness – commons idea – excess demand for hip operation; rivalry contention – agree consensus to share fairly. Basic guaranteed income – redistributing cost/adequacy; allocation of resources other than market; Alvin Roth – alternative market systems. Resistance among general public. Tend towards IOPS view of absolute equality reducing differential – process. 80 hours – timing work; false restraints imposed illness historical problems. Behavioural change. Work is voluntary; Quality of life – doing things because you want to do them; work ceases to be dark and sinister. Worst jobs would pay the most; automation; best jobs have all the perks and most enjoyable; use piratepad – to explore the first three; 1, 2 and 3. IOPS – absolute ideal? – get the foundations correct and the correct outcome will evolve. Coordinator class – factories in Argentina – job complex; untapped wealth of talent – unleashing more resources; classroom teacher and head teacher freedom of action; stress of management; a little of the IOPS is beneficial but let’s not take it to extremes. Playing to people’s strengths rather than expect good from those unsuited to some tasks.

2. 15th May 2013 – The City and Capitalism for the Long Term – Tomorrows Company

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