2012/09/28 Minutes Economics Working Group

2012/09/28 Minutes Economics Working Group

EWG meeting 28th September 2012
Ines, John, Ellena, Steve, Dave, Paul, Janos, Clive
Root cause analysis – led by Janos
People are concerned about economic problems in general but don’t look deep into the issues. Dave, “roots don’t cause things, any more than leaves cause things.” – there is a network of problems/causes?
Steve: Is there is an original cause? Root or underlying cause? Get to the core, from French court – heart of the problem; Hierarchical systems – good communication systems;
Janos:Apply the right tool to the right task at right – one tool isn’t appropriate for everything;
John: Shared common values? Difference in how? violence v moral force (non-violence)
Belief in change? Learn that we can’t prove everything? Distribution of income and wealth? Compound interest – root of evil? Basic right to life and means to life; not taught that we have to earn the right to be here; Locke: Life Liberty and Property basic income; Class; trickle down? Growth from fossil fuels; Africa growth; ratio of income derived from the possibility? Morality – control of darker side of ourselves; income inequality is bad for everybody; Friends Meeting House policy on pay ratios 1-3; in the Navy 1-8; national application? Cooperatives? Ratio (rather than cap); with a living wage; rich and poor; Spirit Level; the less the differential – more cohesive; danger of absolutes – Premier league footballers; economy became a gargantuan monster with more and more parts; compound interest making money out of you; heart sclerosis; selfishness of humanity? Conservative doctrine works with the grain of self interest? Monopoly? Keep us on track; international pressure for change – through occupy? Shared view; executive pay, company law; buying a other companies; corporate raiders v. organic growth; diversification? Supermarkets and financial services;
Rent, interest; profits; pay – money problems income inequity; concept of owning resources.
Ownership of land and compound interest; ownership of knowledge; ownership of position; Dada and Prout; debt jubilee; Putney debates;
Living against the clock (competitor); let’s not deny complexities;
Paul: The seed (source of the problem)- Bank of England;
Approach more like an engineer rather than a philosopher; system like a machine; historical precedents; agricultural system; industrial revolution; world changing results of the industrial revolution; self destruction; be pragmatic; not social engineering; economics badly malfunction.
2-4pm Thursday 4th October at 204 High Holborn (just west of Holborn Tube) two-part event: playing the Income and Equality game (this helps us define what the income ratio in society, after tax, should be and what the level of a guaranteed liveable income should be) and, after a break, an envisioning session to help us define what ‘a better world (than this)’ w/sh/could look like. John Courtneidge 0795 099 6418
Big Shout out!
We need to publicise the ‘Can Banks Be Made Socially Useful?’ event on Monday October 29th, 6 to 8.30pm at the Friends’ Meeting House – it is a big venue and we want to spread the word as widely as possible. The event is led by Andy Haldane from the Bank of England.
Booking & information www.sociallyusefulbanking.org Click on the bar for ‘Reserve your seat’ & follow the registration instructions.
‘Can Banks Be Made Socially Useful?’ with Andy Haldane from the Bank of England
Monday October 29th, 6 to 8.30pm at the Friends’ Meeting House, 173-177 Euston Rd. NW1 2BJ.
Facilitated by Lisa Pollack FT Alphaville blog, with Dominic Lindley (Which) and Duncan Wheldon (TUC)
Dave asked me to encourage all EWG members to reserve seats & promote it. Filling the remaining 900 seats will be easy if they do; we’ll be discredited if we don’t – but also seems reasonable to give the opportunity here before we become oversubscribed. Nevertheless suggestions of organisations to contact & offers to distribute flyers at likely venues very much appreciated & maybe crucial as
part of the whole process.

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