2012/09/07 Minutes Economics Working Group
Mike, Dave, Tammy, Steve, Nelio, Ellena, Peter, Chris F-D, Arun, Clive Apologies:
1. EWG meeting 3rd September -minutes approved
2. GA – speakers, Chris F-D, Clive, Dave, Peter, Steve
3. a) GIRO – meeting this week to make further progress; Feasibility Study; 19th October constituency meeting; need to rework presentation; TSC as an avenue to go forward? Too good an opportunity to pass up. b) Tax Havens – global noise competing? Media opportunity remains (Ronan); if there’s no support from occupy, it won’t happen. c) Putney debates – need the list of topics and organisations to contact; spreadsheet to be circulated to interested parties (Sunday); topics: inequality – redistribution (Dave, Richard Wilkinson); economics – back to basics (Janos); Banking and Monetary system (Clive); Alternative economic systems (Janos and Clive); Richard Murphy? John Christiansen? Chris F-D will produce a list of topics; who are the Putney Debates for? Need to get people into occupy – social media; who will attend these events? Replace what we had at St Pauls – to get new blood in; How do we get a new audience; organisations to circulate? Global noise NSEW? Tower Hamlets, Hackney and Waltham Forest are most active; EDL couldn’t march through Waltham Forest last Saturday. Occupy is not good at getting people out on the streets and attracting new people; using social media is essential; Occupy is small autonomous groups in a structureless framework is in an experimental stage; Arun setting up a meeting about the purpose and future of occupy. d) Social housing policy – nothing to report e) LBOI – “In design” f) ICFT – awaiting meeting g) nothing new h) LA FoI, Richmond discussing at a council cabinet meeting; not a lot of response; 28 days is up should recirculate saying councils are in breach I) LVT – Rob Blakemore being chased j) Roadmap np k) stats – np
4. Nelio’s paper – degradation of labour. Not being addressed elsewhere. “Freedom is when you know the strings that control you” – Spinoza. Study group proposed. Capitalism is about monopoly rather than competition. Nazi model – powerful government reduces personal freedom; elaborate security apparatus; franchises granted to those companies which toe the line; Hugo Boss war criminal for slave labour from concentration camps; SA Miller given a monopoly in SA; export of jobs to low cost; low safety standards etc. countries; or we bring in cheap labour to provide services at below minimum wage; issue of outsourcing; interesting talk by Robin Hayden (participatory economics) – work collective in different alternative systems – interview on Occupy Radio UK (IOES http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/16713) ; not free as a puppet? Competition/monopolisation – competition leads to monopolisation; competition contains the seeds of destruction; control by duress; cooperation is true freedom; Religion traditionally pulled the strings but now people are being manipulated by capitalism; self- gene how can I benefit? Illusions of the capitalist system; game theory – ultimately self destructive; capitalism is too successful predator; robber barons; capitalism is eating itself – parasite draining its host. Fly eating caterpillar’s brain; competition is a zero sum game; one is sustainable; financial system is the underpinning the degradation of everyone, not just labour; no trade union discussion, absence of activism; fishing for people; financialisation is made complex to obscure; created by human beings; but human beings need to understand the system that enslaves them if they are to be given the power to overcome their enslavement; narrow focus of the paper on the financial industry! Different perspectives; group of people to work on this paper; This paper is on the financial sector; on the City today; attract people from occupy to help work on it; request for feedback and contribution.
5. Cuts Cafe (TUC) contribution from EWG – Dave emailed them;