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	<title>Comments on: Occupy London Statement on #9Nov and the Right to Protest</title>
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	<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857</link>
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		<title>By: Stomach Cancer Survival Rate</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4151</link>
		<dc:creator>Stomach Cancer Survival Rate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jan 2012 14:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m extremely impressed with your writing abilities as well as with the layout on your blog. Is that this a paid subject matter or did you customize it your self? Either way keep up the excellent high quality writing, it is rare to see a great weblog like this one nowadays..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m extremely impressed with your writing abilities as well as with the layout on your blog. Is that this a paid subject matter or did you customize it your self? Either way keep up the excellent high quality writing, it is rare to see a great weblog like this one nowadays..</p>
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		<title>By: ibilly99</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4149</link>
		<dc:creator>ibilly99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2011 23:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love the smell of tear gas in the morning !]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the smell of tear gas in the morning !</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4148</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 21:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will the Bankers foreclose on St. Paul?

Will the City - People of London foreclose on St. Pauls?

Will the electricity be closed off?

Will the water be closed off?

Who dares?

St. Pauls is getting a lung full off O2.

It will then fall back to being an irrelvant tourist attraction , with another page written into its history.

The story is incomplete and the ink has yet to dry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will the Bankers foreclose on St. Paul?</p>
<p>Will the City &#8211; People of London foreclose on St. Pauls?</p>
<p>Will the electricity be closed off?</p>
<p>Will the water be closed off?</p>
<p>Who dares?</p>
<p>St. Pauls is getting a lung full off O2.</p>
<p>It will then fall back to being an irrelvant tourist attraction , with another page written into its history.</p>
<p>The story is incomplete and the ink has yet to dry.</p>
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		<title>By: Loving the 100%</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4147</link>
		<dc:creator>Loving the 100%</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 21:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In order to further explain where I&#039;m coming from, let me use an example and see where it goes.

Let&#039;s imagine that I am a paedophile.  Now, it most likely wasn&#039;t something I chose to be.  It probably wasn&#039;t my ambition when I was young or my chosen career.  It was more likely an urge that started involuntary when I was young and grew until it overtook me.  So, in my weakness I succumbed to the urges and violated and harmed innocent children.  I may have tried to control myself in the early days, knowing that such behaviour is wrong, but the urges just proved too powerful and the sense of enjoyment was addictive.  (I can personally relate to this in terms of alcohol as well as other addictions I have suffered).

Now, let&#039;s imagine that I get caught, I&#039;m considered a danger to society and I&#039;m imprisoned.  Now, let&#039;s imagine that I agree with this decision because I know that I cannot control the urges and that I would most likely re-offend if I were not restrained.

Let&#039;s now imagine that you say we should throw away the key because it would never be safe to let me out again.  I may even agree with this, based on my track record and also having heard of those who have been released only to re-offend again.

Now, let&#039;s imagine that you say that its not fair that your tax money is spent on my upkeep in prison and that it would be a better option for me to die. You may even be so repulsed at what I&#039;ve done, or hurt by it personally, that you think I deserve to die anyway.  (I&#039;m not suggesting that these are your personal views btw, but just using the extreme arguments here).  I may even agree with this as I despise myself already and know that my life is of no use to anyone and that I am only being a burden to society.  So, now I despise myself as being beyond cure and deserving of any compassion and fully agree that I deserve to die.

Now, let&#039;s imagine that in steps someone who says that that&#039;s not what they want for me.  They tell me that I am precious to them inspite of what I am.  They realise that I am helpless to do anything about it myself, so they offer that in exchange for my life they will give me a new one ~ giving me a brand new start with the power to live free from the urges that have plagued me.

What do I say?  Thank you, but I don&#039;t deserve it?  Or, thank you, thank you, thank you!

This has been my experience ~ not the paedophile bit, but the Saviour bit ~ I said thank you, thank you, thank you and accepted the new life.

The last thing I wanted was to become one of them freaky Christian people walking round in Jesus-sandals.  Every prejudice within me resisted it, but I just couldn&#039;t resist Jesus himself.  His love overwhelmed me back then and hasn&#039;t stopped since.  It&#039;s only &quot;his&quot; love that has been able to fix me ~ nothing else has come close!

I hope that hasn&#039;t freaked you out too much ~ I know how distasteful this God-talk can be :)

I have used an example here that I don&#039;t claim to have an inside understanding of and so I hope that if anyone reading this is offended by my lack of understanding, that you will please forgive me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In order to further explain where I&#8217;m coming from, let me use an example and see where it goes.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s imagine that I am a paedophile.  Now, it most likely wasn&#8217;t something I chose to be.  It probably wasn&#8217;t my ambition when I was young or my chosen career.  It was more likely an urge that started involuntary when I was young and grew until it overtook me.  So, in my weakness I succumbed to the urges and violated and harmed innocent children.  I may have tried to control myself in the early days, knowing that such behaviour is wrong, but the urges just proved too powerful and the sense of enjoyment was addictive.  (I can personally relate to this in terms of alcohol as well as other addictions I have suffered).</p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s imagine that I get caught, I&#8217;m considered a danger to society and I&#8217;m imprisoned.  Now, let&#8217;s imagine that I agree with this decision because I know that I cannot control the urges and that I would most likely re-offend if I were not restrained.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s now imagine that you say we should throw away the key because it would never be safe to let me out again.  I may even agree with this, based on my track record and also having heard of those who have been released only to re-offend again.</p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s imagine that you say that its not fair that your tax money is spent on my upkeep in prison and that it would be a better option for me to die. You may even be so repulsed at what I&#8217;ve done, or hurt by it personally, that you think I deserve to die anyway.  (I&#8217;m not suggesting that these are your personal views btw, but just using the extreme arguments here).  I may even agree with this as I despise myself already and know that my life is of no use to anyone and that I am only being a burden to society.  So, now I despise myself as being beyond cure and deserving of any compassion and fully agree that I deserve to die.</p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s imagine that in steps someone who says that that&#8217;s not what they want for me.  They tell me that I am precious to them inspite of what I am.  They realise that I am helpless to do anything about it myself, so they offer that in exchange for my life they will give me a new one ~ giving me a brand new start with the power to live free from the urges that have plagued me.</p>
<p>What do I say?  Thank you, but I don&#8217;t deserve it?  Or, thank you, thank you, thank you!</p>
<p>This has been my experience ~ not the paedophile bit, but the Saviour bit ~ I said thank you, thank you, thank you and accepted the new life.</p>
<p>The last thing I wanted was to become one of them freaky Christian people walking round in Jesus-sandals.  Every prejudice within me resisted it, but I just couldn&#8217;t resist Jesus himself.  His love overwhelmed me back then and hasn&#8217;t stopped since.  It&#8217;s only &#8220;his&#8221; love that has been able to fix me ~ nothing else has come close!</p>
<p>I hope that hasn&#8217;t freaked you out too much ~ I know how distasteful this God-talk can be <img src='http://occupylondon.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I have used an example here that I don&#8217;t claim to have an inside understanding of and so I hope that if anyone reading this is offended by my lack of understanding, that you will please forgive me.</p>
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		<title>By: Loving the 100%</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4146</link>
		<dc:creator>Loving the 100%</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Andy
You&#039;ve asked a lot of questions in your post.  I will respond to the ones that are standing out to me first, and come back again if anything else moves me.
Firstly, I WAS a religious person ~ but fortunately I&#039;ve been rescued from it.
What I mean by this is that, as you rightly say, a lot of the world&#039;s bloodshed has been done in &quot;his&quot; name.  He has been misrepresented to the world by religion and I can understand why the world, by and large, have rejected what they&#039;ve seen.  As Chazza said on another thread ~ many thousands of years have proven what&#039;s gone before to be wrong (paraphrased).  I was caught up in the same &quot;religiosity&quot; that so many are still caught up in, but I am now seeing how I have been so deceived and am sharing what I&#039;ve learnt so far (it is a continuing journey after all) for any who want to hear .

The problem with the bible is that we can interpret it to fit our own viewpoint.  That has been the problem all along ~ hence the failure of the past thousands of years to get it right ~ the culmination of which (in my opinion) we are seeing in the world now.

In answer to your question about how to deal with offenders:
Firstly, I would say that I do recognise that there may be a need to restrain someone in some way who is causing harm either to themselves or others.  I, personally, do not deny the wisdom in this.
We do not need to condemn the person in order to do this.  It can merely be a safety precaution.
I&#039;m not sure if Jesus taught anything specific on this ~ others may have more understanding than me.
Jesus DID do something very telling though when presented with the woman caught in adultery.  He said to all those wanting her condemned &quot;Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.&quot;  Every one of those who were accusing her left.

I response to your comments about being happy to be judged and taking responsibility for your own actions ~ I have been there myself too  ~ but... I eventually came to the place where I was shown that my actions were beyond my control.  What I mean is they were being driven by an impulse that was stronger then my ability to control.  I tried everything that I knew how and yet I still couldn&#039;t get a grip.  This is when I learnt the wisdom of letting go and letting God do it for me.  I realised that he loves me inspite of not being able to be &quot;good&quot;.  It took a very long for me to be able to accept this because it contravenes everything I understood about how it all works ~ but I am there now thankfully.
Now if you can maintain control for yourself then good for you ~ but it was proven to me that I couldn&#039;t.  Believe it or not ~ that was the greatest gift of my life.
When commenting upon a sinful woman who was lavishing love on him, Jesus said that &quot;he who has been forgiven much, loves much&quot; ~ that is me.  In taking responsibility for my actions I have also had to take responsibility for not being able to fix myself to.

In everything I say I only speak of my own views and am not claiming to represent the views of anyone else or the movement.

I do not wish to enforce my views on anyone else, merely to share the wisdom I&#039;ve learnt from my own experiences (as I say I&#039;ve learnt the hard way) in case it can help anyone else.

Thank you for your respect to not mock me for my views.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Andy<br />
You&#8217;ve asked a lot of questions in your post.  I will respond to the ones that are standing out to me first, and come back again if anything else moves me.<br />
Firstly, I WAS a religious person ~ but fortunately I&#8217;ve been rescued from it.<br />
What I mean by this is that, as you rightly say, a lot of the world&#8217;s bloodshed has been done in &#8220;his&#8221; name.  He has been misrepresented to the world by religion and I can understand why the world, by and large, have rejected what they&#8217;ve seen.  As Chazza said on another thread ~ many thousands of years have proven what&#8217;s gone before to be wrong (paraphrased).  I was caught up in the same &#8220;religiosity&#8221; that so many are still caught up in, but I am now seeing how I have been so deceived and am sharing what I&#8217;ve learnt so far (it is a continuing journey after all) for any who want to hear .</p>
<p>The problem with the bible is that we can interpret it to fit our own viewpoint.  That has been the problem all along ~ hence the failure of the past thousands of years to get it right ~ the culmination of which (in my opinion) we are seeing in the world now.</p>
<p>In answer to your question about how to deal with offenders:<br />
Firstly, I would say that I do recognise that there may be a need to restrain someone in some way who is causing harm either to themselves or others.  I, personally, do not deny the wisdom in this.<br />
We do not need to condemn the person in order to do this.  It can merely be a safety precaution.<br />
I&#8217;m not sure if Jesus taught anything specific on this ~ others may have more understanding than me.<br />
Jesus DID do something very telling though when presented with the woman caught in adultery.  He said to all those wanting her condemned &#8220;Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.&#8221;  Every one of those who were accusing her left.</p>
<p>I response to your comments about being happy to be judged and taking responsibility for your own actions ~ I have been there myself too  ~ but&#8230; I eventually came to the place where I was shown that my actions were beyond my control.  What I mean is they were being driven by an impulse that was stronger then my ability to control.  I tried everything that I knew how and yet I still couldn&#8217;t get a grip.  This is when I learnt the wisdom of letting go and letting God do it for me.  I realised that he loves me inspite of not being able to be &#8220;good&#8221;.  It took a very long for me to be able to accept this because it contravenes everything I understood about how it all works ~ but I am there now thankfully.<br />
Now if you can maintain control for yourself then good for you ~ but it was proven to me that I couldn&#8217;t.  Believe it or not ~ that was the greatest gift of my life.<br />
When commenting upon a sinful woman who was lavishing love on him, Jesus said that &#8220;he who has been forgiven much, loves much&#8221; ~ that is me.  In taking responsibility for my actions I have also had to take responsibility for not being able to fix myself to.</p>
<p>In everything I say I only speak of my own views and am not claiming to represent the views of anyone else or the movement.</p>
<p>I do not wish to enforce my views on anyone else, merely to share the wisdom I&#8217;ve learnt from my own experiences (as I say I&#8217;ve learnt the hard way) in case it can help anyone else.</p>
<p>Thank you for your respect to not mock me for my views.</p>
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		<title>By: JJL</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4145</link>
		<dc:creator>JJL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 14:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4145</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why is it so surprising that St Paul&#039;s needs money to pay its staff and to fund its activities. This makes it morally corrupt does it? The welfare of a loyal and hard working staff should be as important as the welfare of the campers outside (in my humble opinion). This is a source of the pain because you can&#039;t support one without letting down the other in the current situation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it so surprising that St Paul&#8217;s needs money to pay its staff and to fund its activities. This makes it morally corrupt does it? The welfare of a loyal and hard working staff should be as important as the welfare of the campers outside (in my humble opinion). This is a source of the pain because you can&#8217;t support one without letting down the other in the current situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4144</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 12:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well Loving, you’re clearly a religious person.  I am not, but each to their own. I will neither mock you for you beliefs or views nor try to inflict mine on you.  However, please explain to me, if you will (I had a go at reading the bible a long time ago but came disinterested very quickly) what the bible says we should do with someone that, for example, beats someone to an inch of their life.  Do we let them carry on and wait for justice from God or does it allow us to imprison them to keep the rest of society safe?  If not, are these the same rules for all crimes (sins, if you prefer) and repeat offenders?  If we are allowed to imprison or punish someone then surely we are &#039;judging, criticizing and condemning others&#039;.  I for one am happy with the second scenario, just as I am happy to be judged, criticized and condemned for my actions.  I blame nothing I&#039;ve done on anyone else and take responsibility for all my actions in life (even those in partnership with alcohol that I&#039;d rather forget!).  Have your beliefs and faith if you must, even tell people about it but don&#039;t try and force it on others nor arrogantly assume you are talking for the 99% (not aimed at you personally).  Your representatives at Boris&#039; Q&amp;A session the other day are declaring the movement in the name of God - seems to me that the majority of the worlds bloodshed has been in &#039;his&#039; name.  I&#039;d suggest its best to be kept out of politics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Loving, you’re clearly a religious person.  I am not, but each to their own. I will neither mock you for you beliefs or views nor try to inflict mine on you.  However, please explain to me, if you will (I had a go at reading the bible a long time ago but came disinterested very quickly) what the bible says we should do with someone that, for example, beats someone to an inch of their life.  Do we let them carry on and wait for justice from God or does it allow us to imprison them to keep the rest of society safe?  If not, are these the same rules for all crimes (sins, if you prefer) and repeat offenders?  If we are allowed to imprison or punish someone then surely we are &#8216;judging, criticizing and condemning others&#8217;.  I for one am happy with the second scenario, just as I am happy to be judged, criticized and condemned for my actions.  I blame nothing I&#8217;ve done on anyone else and take responsibility for all my actions in life (even those in partnership with alcohol that I&#8217;d rather forget!).  Have your beliefs and faith if you must, even tell people about it but don&#8217;t try and force it on others nor arrogantly assume you are talking for the 99% (not aimed at you personally).  Your representatives at Boris&#8217; Q&amp;A session the other day are declaring the movement in the name of God &#8211; seems to me that the majority of the worlds bloodshed has been in &#8216;his&#8217; name.  I&#8217;d suggest its best to be kept out of politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Loving the 100%</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4143</link>
		<dc:creator>Loving the 100%</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4143</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also learnt the hard way not to scoff at what I don&#039;t yet understand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also learnt the hard way not to scoff at what I don&#8217;t yet understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Loving the 100%</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4142</link>
		<dc:creator>Loving the 100%</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 09:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I learnt the wisdom in the following words the hard way...

&quot;Matthew 7
 1DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.
    2For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.

    3Why do you stare from without at the very small particle that is in your brother&#039;s eye but do not become aware of and consider the beam of timber that is in your own eye?

    4Or how can you say to your brother, Let me get the tiny particle out of your eye, when there is the beam of timber in your own eye?

    5You hypocrite, first get the beam of timber out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the tiny particle out of your brother&#039;s eye.&quot;

If I could spare anyone else having to go the hard way, I would gladly do so... but it seems that it is the unavoidable route for many.  My heart is with everyone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I learnt the wisdom in the following words the hard way&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Matthew 7<br />
 1DO NOT judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.<br />
    2For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you.</p>
<p>    3Why do you stare from without at the very small particle that is in your brother&#8217;s eye but do not become aware of and consider the beam of timber that is in your own eye?</p>
<p>    4Or how can you say to your brother, Let me get the tiny particle out of your eye, when there is the beam of timber in your own eye?</p>
<p>    5You hypocrite, first get the beam of timber out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the tiny particle out of your brother&#8217;s eye.&#8221;</p>
<p>If I could spare anyone else having to go the hard way, I would gladly do so&#8230; but it seems that it is the unavoidable route for many.  My heart is with everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/857#comment-4141</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=857#comment-4141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Human, yes, I&#039;m the same Andy and sadly no, I haven&#039;t yet had a listen.  Its been a rather busy week but its on my list of things to do today.  I am genuinely interested and will post back when I&#039;ve had a chance to listen - not quite sure where as these nestings are making reading a thread very difficult.  As per one of your previous posts, I also suspect we are not so different and, despite myself (and the initial insults! :) ) I&#039;m rather liking your posts.  You seem to be one of the very few from the protest side that even attempts to put across ideas and listen to, let alone participate in reasoned argument.
Glad also that the student protests went without the violence and damage of last time.  Clearly the threat of a rubber bullet helped keep the majority of minds focused!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Human, yes, I&#8217;m the same Andy and sadly no, I haven&#8217;t yet had a listen.  Its been a rather busy week but its on my list of things to do today.  I am genuinely interested and will post back when I&#8217;ve had a chance to listen &#8211; not quite sure where as these nestings are making reading a thread very difficult.  As per one of your previous posts, I also suspect we are not so different and, despite myself (and the initial insults! <img src='http://occupylondon.org.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) I&#8217;m rather liking your posts.  You seem to be one of the very few from the protest side that even attempts to put across ideas and listen to, let alone participate in reasoned argument.<br />
Glad also that the student protests went without the violence and damage of last time.  Clearly the threat of a rubber bullet helped keep the majority of minds focused!</p>
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