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	<title>Comments on: #occupylsx &#8211; Come to City of London&#039;s PUBLIC MEETING regarding the eviction of OccupyLSX</title>
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		<title>By: bart</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2759</link>
		<dc:creator>bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, this comment typifies what the whole debate is about: &quot;it&#039;s all about me, and bugger the rest&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, this comment typifies what the whole debate is about: &#8220;it&#8217;s all about me, and bugger the rest&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: elisalou</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2758</link>
		<dc:creator>elisalou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2011 01:21:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2758</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[see reply (in the wrong place) at 2.16 (after Damien)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>see reply (in the wrong place) at 2.16 (after Damien)</p>
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		<title>By: elisalou</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2757</link>
		<dc:creator>elisalou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2011 01:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ecomaiden -
you can&#039;t convince people who don&#039;t want to believe - if they aren&#039;t willing to listen to you who they know, how will they listen to the occupiers they don&#039;t know?  It&#039;s hard not to panic, but don&#039;t!

The revolution/message will be seen, not heard!

And you would need reams and reams of paper to write it down.

And endless words to express it.

Part of the old way of doing things and something that we need to step away from, is the obsession with &#039;image&#039; over &#039;truth&#039;.  It is important for authenticity, honesty, transparency, that the &#039;publicity machine&#039; doesn&#039;t force the movement into creating it&#039;s own &#039;spin&#039;.  &#039;Spin&#039; is part of the underhand way of the past.

Although it&#039;s hard to be patient, integrity slowly but surely sends its own message. No-one needs to &#039;defend&#039; it, or anyone who is trying to live in accordance with it.

And whatever Occupy is about, it&#039;s definitely NOT a quick fix, which is all &#039;spin&#039; achieves - we need longevity in this, real change, fundamental change, and this is about the &#039;long haul&#039; even though it is also urgent.

And I think the &#039;public machine&#039; is getting &#039;wrong-footed&#039; all the time, actually.
Louise Mensch must truly regret the day she mentioned Starbucks, frinstance......(a bit like Norman Tebbit is only remembered for the infamous on yer bike comment), and all the powers that be/media seem capable of is nervous side swipes - seems to me everyone is actually pretty scared of outrightly condemning the protests.... and the Mayor and Police in Oakland must be feeling pretty sick right now.....I could go on; there are plenty of examples.

It&#039;s all right, it really is.....and it is REALLY IMPORTANT not to let anyone who isn&#039;t &#039;listening&#039; to &#039;the process&#039; set the agenda.

And the occupiers are dealing with what is right there in front of them and the challenge that has presented itself to them, instead of ducking it.  The whole playing out of this is saying FAR more about the C of E and some of what is untenable in its compromises than it is about the occupiers, and already two people at St Paul&#039;s have resigned which is significant in itself.  Other important outcomes will follow, and the ramifications will run and run....(eg have you read the list of the powerful on St Pauls board?).

It matters what people do, not just what they say, when the chips are down.  It demonstrates the issues, and St Paul&#039;s is not exempted from the challenge to &#039;put their money where their mouth is&#039; - to let them off the hook would really be woolly minded!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ecomaiden -<br />
you can&#8217;t convince people who don&#8217;t want to believe &#8211; if they aren&#8217;t willing to listen to you who they know, how will they listen to the occupiers they don&#8217;t know?  It&#8217;s hard not to panic, but don&#8217;t!</p>
<p>The revolution/message will be seen, not heard!</p>
<p>And you would need reams and reams of paper to write it down.</p>
<p>And endless words to express it.</p>
<p>Part of the old way of doing things and something that we need to step away from, is the obsession with &#8216;image&#8217; over &#8216;truth&#8217;.  It is important for authenticity, honesty, transparency, that the &#8216;publicity machine&#8217; doesn&#8217;t force the movement into creating it&#8217;s own &#8216;spin&#8217;.  &#8216;Spin&#8217; is part of the underhand way of the past.</p>
<p>Although it&#8217;s hard to be patient, integrity slowly but surely sends its own message. No-one needs to &#8216;defend&#8217; it, or anyone who is trying to live in accordance with it.</p>
<p>And whatever Occupy is about, it&#8217;s definitely NOT a quick fix, which is all &#8216;spin&#8217; achieves &#8211; we need longevity in this, real change, fundamental change, and this is about the &#8216;long haul&#8217; even though it is also urgent.</p>
<p>And I think the &#8216;public machine&#8217; is getting &#8216;wrong-footed&#8217; all the time, actually.<br />
Louise Mensch must truly regret the day she mentioned Starbucks, frinstance&#8230;&#8230;(a bit like Norman Tebbit is only remembered for the infamous on yer bike comment), and all the powers that be/media seem capable of is nervous side swipes &#8211; seems to me everyone is actually pretty scared of outrightly condemning the protests&#8230;. and the Mayor and Police in Oakland must be feeling pretty sick right now&#8230;..I could go on; there are plenty of examples.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all right, it really is&#8230;..and it is REALLY IMPORTANT not to let anyone who isn&#8217;t &#8216;listening&#8217; to &#8216;the process&#8217; set the agenda.</p>
<p>And the occupiers are dealing with what is right there in front of them and the challenge that has presented itself to them, instead of ducking it.  The whole playing out of this is saying FAR more about the C of E and some of what is untenable in its compromises than it is about the occupiers, and already two people at St Paul&#8217;s have resigned which is significant in itself.  Other important outcomes will follow, and the ramifications will run and run&#8230;.(eg have you read the list of the powerful on St Pauls board?).</p>
<p>It matters what people do, not just what they say, when the chips are down.  It demonstrates the issues, and St Paul&#8217;s is not exempted from the challenge to &#8216;put their money where their mouth is&#8217; &#8211; to let them off the hook would really be woolly minded!</p>
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		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2756</link>
		<dc:creator>Damien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The church reaction was just ridiculous, and just the tone of that piece in the standard by the bishop truly nauseating. Don&#039;t worry about it.

Occupy London is in the right place, in the oldest democracy of the realm.
Let them evict us and prove the current absence of democracy, more will come every day.

Solidarity from #OccupyBrussels]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The church reaction was just ridiculous, and just the tone of that piece in the standard by the bishop truly nauseating. Don&#8217;t worry about it.</p>
<p>Occupy London is in the right place, in the oldest democracy of the realm.<br />
Let them evict us and prove the current absence of democracy, more will come every day.</p>
<p>Solidarity from #OccupyBrussels</p>
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		<title>By: elisalou</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2755</link>
		<dc:creator>elisalou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 23:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t agree with you, Pete - I feel that Occupy at St Paul&#039;s is just as and where it should be.

It seems to me that the movement (here and generally) has all the hallmarks of something capable of facilitating a major shift in the very ethos of our society, which takes the whole thing onto a whole other level than a single issue protest.

As a movement which knows it is time to say we&#039;re in a wrong place and we can&#039;t/won&#039;t stay silent any longer - that there is something absolutely rotten at the heart of our public and common life and it MUST change fundamentally, Occupy has already been hugely successful in invigorating widespread Hope in the possibility of renewal.

This is a movement that is actually attempting to incarnate what that Hope looks like in practise, and part of this is not trying to dictate and reduce to a formula the outworking of this on the ground.

However, as an authentic movement, it is incumbent on it to respond to challenges as they present, which is just how incarnation works - it is circular; not just planning then doing, but also doing as seems fit at the time and then articulating what this means in theory, which then, in turn, further informs practise.

The camp being at St Paul&#039;s was not (pro-actively) intentional - it came about organically - ie it was the obvious and natural result of the circumstances, and even the Dean has said:

&#039;There is something profound about protest being made and heard in front of this most holy place: a gathering together of those concerned about poverty and inequality facing the great Dome of this Cathedral Church.&#039;

and it has really seemed very fitting.

But, having been, as Christians would put it, &#039;lead there&#039; by no direct human planning, it is not at all appropriate to collapse like a stack of cards at the first sign of obstacles in the path.

Indeed it is in the challenge presented, firstly to the powerful all around the protest by the protest, and then by the powerful to the protest, that the positions and motivations of both are laid bare and the battle is joined.

The protesters have not sought to do battle with St Paul&#039;s; St Paul&#039;s has decided to fight them, and therefore that is part of the outworking of the protest. This is what is developing; it is not a directing choice, it is a responding one.

This is exactly what we should expect of a movement of the Spirit.  Recognition of what&#039;s wrong - belief that it can change -listening, thinking, waiting - then responding to what is under your nose.

No-one person knows where this will go, and quite rightly too, because if it&#039;s to be as big as it needs to be, it will be beyond us and what we are capable of controlling.

Bring it on!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t agree with you, Pete &#8211; I feel that Occupy at St Paul&#8217;s is just as and where it should be.</p>
<p>It seems to me that the movement (here and generally) has all the hallmarks of something capable of facilitating a major shift in the very ethos of our society, which takes the whole thing onto a whole other level than a single issue protest.</p>
<p>As a movement which knows it is time to say we&#8217;re in a wrong place and we can&#8217;t/won&#8217;t stay silent any longer &#8211; that there is something absolutely rotten at the heart of our public and common life and it MUST change fundamentally, Occupy has already been hugely successful in invigorating widespread Hope in the possibility of renewal.</p>
<p>This is a movement that is actually attempting to incarnate what that Hope looks like in practise, and part of this is not trying to dictate and reduce to a formula the outworking of this on the ground.</p>
<p>However, as an authentic movement, it is incumbent on it to respond to challenges as they present, which is just how incarnation works &#8211; it is circular; not just planning then doing, but also doing as seems fit at the time and then articulating what this means in theory, which then, in turn, further informs practise.</p>
<p>The camp being at St Paul&#8217;s was not (pro-actively) intentional &#8211; it came about organically &#8211; ie it was the obvious and natural result of the circumstances, and even the Dean has said:</p>
<p>&#8216;There is something profound about protest being made and heard in front of this most holy place: a gathering together of those concerned about poverty and inequality facing the great Dome of this Cathedral Church.&#8217;</p>
<p>and it has really seemed very fitting.</p>
<p>But, having been, as Christians would put it, &#8216;lead there&#8217; by no direct human planning, it is not at all appropriate to collapse like a stack of cards at the first sign of obstacles in the path.</p>
<p>Indeed it is in the challenge presented, firstly to the powerful all around the protest by the protest, and then by the powerful to the protest, that the positions and motivations of both are laid bare and the battle is joined.</p>
<p>The protesters have not sought to do battle with St Paul&#8217;s; St Paul&#8217;s has decided to fight them, and therefore that is part of the outworking of the protest. This is what is developing; it is not a directing choice, it is a responding one.</p>
<p>This is exactly what we should expect of a movement of the Spirit.  Recognition of what&#8217;s wrong &#8211; belief that it can change -listening, thinking, waiting &#8211; then responding to what is under your nose.</p>
<p>No-one person knows where this will go, and quite rightly too, because if it&#8217;s to be as big as it needs to be, it will be beyond us and what we are capable of controlling.</p>
<p>Bring it on!</p>
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		<title>By: ecomaiden</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2754</link>
		<dc:creator>ecomaiden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 22:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Instead of fighting the Church - please, please turn your time and efforts to getting your message out. I am constantly defending you to people who believe what they see/read in the Media and dismiss you as lazy layabout scroungers with nothing better to do than cause trouble. You are being portrayed as Unfocussed, woolly minded and disorganised.

You are NOT BEING HEARD.

Please sort it soonest. Credibility should be your priority right now. The Church stuff is a distraction and weakens your time and resources.

Think - where would you have gone if not to St Pauls? -  and go there, re-group, and focus.

You are not making it easy for the public to support you. And without their support you are doomed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of fighting the Church &#8211; please, please turn your time and efforts to getting your message out. I am constantly defending you to people who believe what they see/read in the Media and dismiss you as lazy layabout scroungers with nothing better to do than cause trouble. You are being portrayed as Unfocussed, woolly minded and disorganised.</p>
<p>You are NOT BEING HEARD.</p>
<p>Please sort it soonest. Credibility should be your priority right now. The Church stuff is a distraction and weakens your time and resources.</p>
<p>Think &#8211; where would you have gone if not to St Pauls? &#8211;  and go there, re-group, and focus.</p>
<p>You are not making it easy for the public to support you. And without their support you are doomed.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2753</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 20:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2753</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So you have a talent and managed to use it to your advantage, good for you (not meant in a sarcastic way.)
I&#039;m pleased for you, and I don&#039;t begrudge you a single penny of your hard earned money. I begrudge anyone or anything that would desire to steal it from you. You&#039;ve earned that money and therefore have the right to keep it. Please tell me, is the money you earn, the motivation for the work you do ? Because I always thought whores work for money. Personally I prefer to live to work, not work to live.
Bankers don&#039;t rule the world, they may have you believe they do but that is entirely your choice, people are fast becoming aware that they truly are the masters of their own destiny.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you have a talent and managed to use it to your advantage, good for you (not meant in a sarcastic way.)<br />
I&#8217;m pleased for you, and I don&#8217;t begrudge you a single penny of your hard earned money. I begrudge anyone or anything that would desire to steal it from you. You&#8217;ve earned that money and therefore have the right to keep it. Please tell me, is the money you earn, the motivation for the work you do ? Because I always thought whores work for money. Personally I prefer to live to work, not work to live.<br />
Bankers don&#8217;t rule the world, they may have you believe they do but that is entirely your choice, people are fast becoming aware that they truly are the masters of their own destiny.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2752</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2752</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a christian, labour party member and committed socialist the decision to take on the church I believe is a terrible move. We had the support of the majority of faith groups and sympathy even from St Pauls. Now we are losing momentum and support as it turns into a fight over how we protest rather than why we are protesting. Getting councillors, activists and local groups onside is what should be the focus rather than fighting over land. I want us to stay there but not at the cost of everything else.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a christian, labour party member and committed socialist the decision to take on the church I believe is a terrible move. We had the support of the majority of faith groups and sympathy even from St Pauls. Now we are losing momentum and support as it turns into a fight over how we protest rather than why we are protesting. Getting councillors, activists and local groups onside is what should be the focus rather than fighting over land. I want us to stay there but not at the cost of everything else.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2751</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 17:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A lot of us have Jobs, I work for Oxfam all week dealing with global injustices and as it is now becoming an issue at home am spending my weekend in london. As usual your refering to the minority in a pathetic attempt to tarnish the majority go and be a daily mail hack.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of us have Jobs, I work for Oxfam all week dealing with global injustices and as it is now becoming an issue at home am spending my weekend in london. As usual your refering to the minority in a pathetic attempt to tarnish the majority go and be a daily mail hack.</p>
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		<title>By: brobof</title>
		<link>http://occupylondon.org.uk/archives/543#comment-2750</link>
		<dc:creator>brobof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 16:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://occupyLSX.org/?p=543#comment-2750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With regard to your &quot;response&quot; *jazz hands* Is there an emoticon for GA assent &amp; etc?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to your &#8220;response&#8221; *jazz hands* Is there an emoticon for GA assent &amp; etc?</p>
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