Comments on: Occupy London meets FSA and engages with the City; First statement of Economics Working Group

By: sashimi

sashimi — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:35:55 +0000

Christopher Fraser said:
“I think lots of people were unhappy with the haste and lack of discussion which which the FSA meeting was organised. I believe in the end it was discussed at the 1pm GA on the day of the meeting.”

So after the GA, did lots of people became resigned to a fait accompli undertaken by the Economics Working Group or did they actually support such a decision and the way this clique had decided on their behalf?

Plus Ultra said “I asked several members of the media team whether the issue of CiF contribution had been put before the GA and they replied that it was not. Rather, as the first article – http://piratepad.net/0gNVU4SPj2 – above proves, decisions about media partnerships are taken by those operating as media correspondents for the movement; these correspondents appear to be acting alone – a clear problem which emerges from a movement which stresses consensus and unsupervised division of labour over voting and demand building.”

Why is there no critique of the media, especially the liberal media like the Guardian with its need to chase advertising revenue?

Means and ends people. Means and ends.

By: sashimi

sashimi — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:19:23 +0000

Means and ends people. Means and ends.

By: Brian Johnson

Brian Johnson — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 13:17:13 +0000

What happens next now that LXS have committed themselves to seeking solutions within the very system which caused the problems and issues confronting the majority? Its back on the merry-go-round of useless reforms for yet another journey of despair and misery, thats what!!!

Or you could bite the bullet and take that necessary leap in consciousness and honestly admit capitalism has to go. For the solutions have been tried and they only work for a tiny minority.

By: andy

andy — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 11:16:49 +0000

If you seriously think that the financial industry, an industry that will create wars and profit gleefully from disaster, is going to ‘engage’ with you or take part in any kind of ‘conversation’ with you because you slept in a tent and had some articles in the (highly reactionary) Guardian, then you are completely deluded. This is very simple PR stuff, crisis management, and Occupy LSX has had its collective ego flattered enough into going along with it.

By: Christopher Fraser

Christopher Fraser — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 22:53:10 +0000

I was involved in the drafting of this statement and the extent to which it “implicitly accepts and legitimises the existing paradigm” was a concern, which is why the first sentence reads they way it does. The movement spans a huge range of positions from anti-capitalist to reformist and the statement reflects this. I personally would have preferred something more radical but I do honestly think this is a reasonably fair middle ground of camp sentiment. The reason why there are no concrete proposals is we were under pressure to get something out. I know everyone wants to read specific proposals but it is going to take more time and a lot more discussion.

So, I think it is true it does legitimate that there should be financial institutions, although whether they are private or not is left open. As long as there is money there is probably be a role for depository institutions which collect savings and make loans, but I agree with Chris Cook above that peer-to-peer lending and financing is exciting and interesting. It does legitimate regulation, but it’s likely there will still be role for this in whatever radical alternatives are adopted after this.

Zina: I think lots of people were unhappy with the haste and lack of discussion which which the FSA meeting was organised. I believe in the end it was discussed at the 1pm GA on the day of the meeting.

By: Zina Hawkins

Zina Hawkins — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 17:01:39 +0000

I have been at Occupy London for the last four weeks and my group on Law and legal reform was not even notified of the meeting with the FSA or anyone else. This shows complete contempt for your fellow protestors.

By: Alan

Alan — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 16:50:06 +0000

Talking with the FSA – the Fundamentally Supine Authority? Come on people – this is the shower that has been facilitating the daylight robbery that is going on. You cannot negotiate with these people and those they serve; they will ignore or renege on every single commitment they grant you. The system has to go.

By: Old Fart

Old Fart — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 15:11:03 +0000

In the US the Occupy movement has been assaulted violently by cops and the local state from pillar to post and subject to vicious intimidation and eviction. In response they continue to re-occupy central locations and to spread the actions to point of immediate conflict such as the ambitious West Coast Port Shutdown on Dec 12th and the amazing 50 city strong re-occupation of foreclosed homes on Dec 6th. They might call this ‘sticking it to the man!’.

In London it seems the point of interest is to meet with bankers and hang out with other total waste of spaces such as Polly Toynbee so as to appear fair and well-balanced and engaging with all sections of the political class. And to jolly up to The Guardian too.

This is truly depressing shit, my friends. It’s hardly a new form of poiitics. It’s the same old class ridden politics of the UK for the last 300 years – liberal, sensible, reforming, balanced all the while the class war continues unabated with no concern for such niceties as fair play, a nice chat and a handshake. Austerity is class war. It takes from those who have the least because that’s the current way the capitalist class can make it’s money, the profits of finance being so fucked up now.

Occupy London G.A can agree a statement that on the one hand calls for banks to be reformed and then further down notes that the problems of inequality are systemic. Yes, that’s right, the global financial institutions and government are the system that creates the poverty and violence of capitalism. How do you reform this?

Certainly not by meeting folks from UBS, the FSA, the corporate media and having a nice chat. What a luxury! Maybe the starving masses of Haiti should convene a nice reconciliation meeting between the 5 ruling families of Haiti and the corporate business and themselves and see what is possible.

Here was a good response from the folks of Bhopal to Dow Chemicals and the London Olympics:
http://vastminority.blogspot.com/2011/12/indian-protesters-block-trains-and.html

Maybe they should all sit around a table instead?

By: Adam

Adam — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 13:25:58 +0000

Whatever happened to “anti-capitalism”? This is just trying to patch up the capitalist system.

By: Ó Daighre

Ó Daighre — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 11:15:44 +0000

I agree with Alan and Janet above. The strength of the Occupy movement comes from its position outside conventional politics. Negotiating with those in the financial sector is setting the bar far far too low in terms of what we can achieve through a mass movement for real change. We are many, they are few but now the occupy movement is pandering to their (and the corporate media’s) demands to be ‘reasonable’. This will be the death knell for the movement. If these ‘negotiations’ continue, the movement will safely be neutered and the 1% can carry on like they’ve always carried on, albeit with a few more crumbs offered from their table.

Please don’t play their games!