Comments on: Fundamentally Christian?

By: Karen Eliot

Karen Eliot — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 13:04:19 +0000

Are you seriously claiming that you write on behalf of all of OccupyLSX, without consulting them? So you’re the leader?

By: anthony

anthony — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 06:16:00 +0000

I can agree SELF FORGIVENESS is effective though understand to forgive another is to give them permission to continue doing that which you have forgiven them for.
As I said the word “moral” creates unnecessary issues itself, though to then provide a justification for failure on top of that is asking for ‘trouble’.
Thank you

By: Sinbad

Sinbad — Wed, 16 Nov 2011 02:07:37 +0000

I think the Christian comment is valid, because I wrote a similar comparison on the Guardian talk board. And also because you are protesting outside a Christian cathedral.

The Church has not followed the teachings of Jesus (if he existed) for many centuries. Perhaps your protest on the doorstep of the Church(in olden days the last refuge from violence) might make those in the Church to wonder what it is really like to follow some of the teachings of its founder (allegedly).

You are doing many similar things to what Jesus is portrayed as doing in the Gospels: protesting (money changers), criticizing injustice of the elites (scribes and Pharisees), and teaching about the social justice of loving thy neighbour as thyself.

These teachings aren’t, of course, limited to one religion, as many others have very similar things (Buddhism) to say. There are a lot of good teachings in the Christian story, it would look better for the Church, and better PR, if they started practising what they preach.

Hold on in there oh ye Good Samaritans at the Camp in London. Wish I was there and not stuck in Spain.

By: Promotor Fidei

Promotor Fidei — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 17:40:58 +0000

If you hold that it is Christianity (or, more broadly, religion) which makes people manage hedge funds, trade arms and generally behave in a reprehensible manner I suggest it would be unlikely that you could simultaneously hold a very high view of the founder of the religion. On the other hand, you might argue that it is not Christianity per se which engenders this type of behaviour (one might in any case point to innumerable examples of non-Christians behaving in precisely the same way), but rather a certain segment of Christian believers falling, in this case, very short of the Christian ideal. Moreover, given that Jesus himself predicted that even his closest disciple (Simon Peter) would deny him three times, most Christians, I would suggest, might be inclined to see such behaviour in somewhat more nuanced terms than mere ‘rank hypocrisy’.

So what is your answer to the now famous question: “What would Jesus do?”

By: Mark of Faith

Mark of Faith — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:43:54 +0000

It is one of the features of Occupy that I am particularly drawn to: the use of dialogous (if that’s a word) democracy, (i.e. the original Greek Agora model) rather than a once every few years mark on a piece of paper that then transfers the democratic debate to someone you may well have never met.

By: Mandy

Mandy — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:13:32 +0000

From this perspective, I would say that the movement is not “Fundamentally Christian” ~ and yet I DO see Christ at work in individuals in, and through, it.

Labels are not always helpful though. We use labels to define our perspective of reality. As an example, I have had dealings with an individual who I caught sight of God in, and yet they said that they don’t believe in God themselves. Hmm, so I’m seeing God in someone who doesn’t even believe in him. So, in that I’m using labels to define something that I recognise as real. Even in the bible, many names are used in relation to Christ and his nature ~ Wisdom being one of them, for example.

Reality is reality ~ regardless of the labels we use and the route we take to get there.

Christianity is the route through which I am realising reality. Many falsities of my preconceived thinking have been, and still are being, debunked on the way to realising reality though. Only The Truth will remain when everything else has been stripped away.

By: Mandy

Mandy — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:12:26 +0000

Yes ~ I AM the 100%

By: Asher Roth

Asher Roth — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:11:25 +0000

Because it’s men doing most of the talking?

By: Mandy

Mandy — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:34:05 +0000

This may put the cat amongst the pigeons, but in terms of morality, here’s something it says in the bible:

3Even if I dole out all that I have [to the poor in providing] food, and if I surrender my body to be burned or in order that I may glory, but have not love (God’s love in me), I gain nothing.

4Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily.

5It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God’s love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong].

6It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail.

7Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

8Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end].

(from 1 Corinthians 13 – Amplified version)

By: Mandy

Mandy — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 12:43:23 +0000

I think that a “just” society has to be overarched by forgiveness. Being realistic, people are going to fail to live upto the moral standards imposed ~ but forgiveness is what will hold it together.